Category talk:Two Bridges
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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.
Category:Two Bridges[edit]
 | Category:Two Bridges | Move to/Rename as | Category:Two Bridges, New York | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
 | Category:Two bridges | Disambiguate | Wikimedia disambiguation category | |
 | Disambiguate "two bridges" (Category:2 bridges, Category:Two Bridges, New York (new name), Category:Two Bridges, Devon. While the NY one may be a bit more common than the other, it is not so night-and-day as to mean we can't have a dab. | |||
 | Josh (talk) 05:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC) | |||
- I.m.o. Category:Two Bridges should be a disambiguation page for those two toponyms; those two (and any other) should be under Category:2 bridges; finally Category:Two bridges should remaind a redirect to Category:2 bridges. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 13:37, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Support Tuvalkin's proposal per w:WP:DABNAME ("The spelling that reflects the majority of items on the page is preferred to less common alternatives") since all the other entries are proper nouns. The lower case could indeed stay as a redirect to 2 bridges or retargeted to the upper case DAB page but either way readers will have 2 clicks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale: Commons categories have their own peculiarities when it comes to dab pages, so w:WP:DABNAME does not really apply here, and for good reason. It is problematic to have two identically named categories (including redirects) when the only difference between them is capitalization. If indeed they warrant having separate categories, then better parenthetical dab info should be added. The reason is that when you type into the search, regardless of how you capitalize your input, you will be presented with two otherwise identical names, merely with a letter capitalized or not between them. For many users, especially those speaking non-English languages with different capitalization rules, this can be very confusing. Thus having the dab info in () in the name is the preferred method as from the search results users will have a clearer definition of what each category contains. Note we are dabbing categories here, whereas WP dabs are primarily article dabs. Categories should be disambiguated at the name with the broadest scope, hence the lower case is preferred if there are different capitalization formats used for different subjects (abc, Abc, ABC, etc.) as it is the most generic format. If it is deemed meaningful to have a separate Two Bridges dab for populated places, it should have parenthetical dab info to reflect why it exists, so Category:Two Bridges (populated place) as a dab would be okay, but having both Category:Two bridges and Category:Two Bridges, even as redirects, is a problem. Josh (talk) 23:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: my reference to DABNAME was to the choice of the title of the DAB page namely "Two Bridges" not "Two bridges" (as I'm assuming you're not suggesting we have an identical DAB at both titles) since all other uses are Upper Case. Commons has no guidance on this so we defer to WP on this. Note that having 2 names that only differ in capitalization has been used (such as Category:Duck sauce and Category:Duck Sauce) but we tend to be less ambiguous here so we might disambiguate even if this is possible (and place a DAB at the Title Case version) see examples of Category:The Police and Category:Iron Maiden where we have disambiuated even though WP hasn't. Because we have less images on albums and films (and similar) there will be less occasions this happens anyway. In any case we could still redirect "Two bridges" to the "Two Bridges" DAB instead of leaving it as is. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale: I'm certainly not suggesting we have a dab at both 'Two bridges' and 'Two Bridges', as there are hardly enough categories linked to make that worth anything. I'm fine with the dab being named 'Two Bridges' versus 'Two bridges'. What I disagree with is the proposal to keep Category:Two bridges as a redirect to Category:2 bridges. Having both capitalization variations going in different directions is a bad idea. Josh (talk) 20:13, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: my reference to DABNAME was to the choice of the title of the DAB page namely "Two Bridges" not "Two bridges" (as I'm assuming you're not suggesting we have an identical DAB at both titles) since all other uses are Upper Case. Commons has no guidance on this so we defer to WP on this. Note that having 2 names that only differ in capitalization has been used (such as Category:Duck sauce and Category:Duck Sauce) but we tend to be less ambiguous here so we might disambiguate even if this is possible (and place a DAB at the Title Case version) see examples of Category:The Police and Category:Iron Maiden where we have disambiuated even though WP hasn't. Because we have less images on albums and films (and similar) there will be less occasions this happens anyway. In any case we could still redirect "Two bridges" to the "Two Bridges" DAB instead of leaving it as is. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale: Commons categories have their own peculiarities when it comes to dab pages, so w:WP:DABNAME does not really apply here, and for good reason. It is problematic to have two identically named categories (including redirects) when the only difference between them is capitalization. If indeed they warrant having separate categories, then better parenthetical dab info should be added. The reason is that when you type into the search, regardless of how you capitalize your input, you will be presented with two otherwise identical names, merely with a letter capitalized or not between them. For many users, especially those speaking non-English languages with different capitalization rules, this can be very confusing. Thus having the dab info in () in the name is the preferred method as from the search results users will have a clearer definition of what each category contains. Note we are dabbing categories here, whereas WP dabs are primarily article dabs. Categories should be disambiguated at the name with the broadest scope, hence the lower case is preferred if there are different capitalization formats used for different subjects (abc, Abc, ABC, etc.) as it is the most generic format. If it is deemed meaningful to have a separate Two Bridges dab for populated places, it should have parenthetical dab info to reflect why it exists, so Category:Two Bridges (populated place) as a dab would be okay, but having both Category:Two bridges and Category:Two Bridges, even as redirects, is a problem. Josh (talk) 23:49, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Oppose -- Instead I suggest the name Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan. ----DanTD (talk) 02:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)- Oppose - I agree with DanTD and suggest the name Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan. 🇪🇵🇮🇨🇬🇪🇳🇮🇺🇸 (talk) 20:24, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
- @DanTD and Epicgenius: What do you oppose, then, exactly? Looks like everybody here agrees that this category is ambiguous and should be renamed. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 20:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- I don't believe anybody here disagrees with the reasons for the renaming per se. The reason for the opposition is that when it comes to naming conventions for any neighborhood in New York City, we go by the Borough. If Two Bridges were in Brooklyn, we'd go with "Two Bridges, Brooklyn." But it's in Manhattan. We're not going to call it "Two Bridges, New York," or "Two Bridges, New York City" or anything like that. --DanTD (talk) 20:57, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- I also oppose "Two Bridges, New York" because it is not specific. That title assumes it is a community in New York State outside of New York City, and also does not match with the Wikipedia article title, which is Two Bridges, Manhattan. However, "Two Bridges, Manhattan" is acceptable since it is a neighborhood in Manhattan, NYC, and NYC neighborhoods are disambiguated by their borough generally (see Category:Neighborhoods in Manhattan, New York City). I am not in opposition to the move, just to the proposed title. epicgenius (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- Epicgenius brought up another issue I didn't even consider. Yes, the proposed title is usually reserved for communities outside of New York City. So bring on "Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan." ----DanTD (talk) 13:55, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- Update -- Is this issue still being dealt with? I'm still awaiting the renaming of this category as "Two Bridges, Manhattan." ----DanTD (talk) 04:49, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Epicgenius brought up another issue I didn't even consider. Yes, the proposed title is usually reserved for communities outside of New York City. So bring on "Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan." ----DanTD (talk) 13:55, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
- I also oppose "Two Bridges, New York" because it is not specific. That title assumes it is a community in New York State outside of New York City, and also does not match with the Wikipedia article title, which is Two Bridges, Manhattan. However, "Two Bridges, Manhattan" is acceptable since it is a neighborhood in Manhattan, NYC, and NYC neighborhoods are disambiguated by their borough generally (see Category:Neighborhoods in Manhattan, New York City). I am not in opposition to the move, just to the proposed title. epicgenius (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- I don't believe anybody here disagrees with the reasons for the renaming per se. The reason for the opposition is that when it comes to naming conventions for any neighborhood in New York City, we go by the Borough. If Two Bridges were in Brooklyn, we'd go with "Two Bridges, Brooklyn." But it's in Manhattan. We're not going to call it "Two Bridges, New York," or "Two Bridges, New York City" or anything like that. --DanTD (talk) 20:57, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- We were all awaiting. That’s the problem of using CfD for trivial matters such as these. Anyway, it’s done. Now an admin need to close this. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 07:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- @DanTD and Epicgenius: What do you oppose, then, exactly? Looks like everybody here agrees that this category is ambiguous and should be renamed. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 20:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
- @DanTD and Epicgenius: You two are still marked above as opposing, two votes against my support. A hurried admin might skip the discussion, and just tally the votes, undo the renaming/move, keep this discussion open, and maybe even admonish me for being bold, so if you could strike out your opposition, that would be sweet. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 07:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Well, the current rename is much better, so I'm happy. ----DanTD (talk) 13:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- I find the current name of Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan to be satisfactory. I have therefore struck my oppose. epicgenius (talk) 19:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- I supposed I should strike opposition to the previous proposal, in spite of the current rename being more acceptable. ----DanTD (talk) 18:49, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- The category has been renamed properly, Can we close this now? ----DanTD (talk) 14:04, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale@DanTD@Epicgenius@Joshbaumgartner I thought that we have DAB like en:Two Bridges. And category:2 bridges is a subcategory of Category:Groups of bridges Estopedist1 (talk) 21:47, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Estopedist1: I've added a dab to Category:Two Bridges, or should it redirect to Category:Two bridges which then becomes the dab? Josh (talk) 22:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- very good job, @Joshbaumgartner! I added the hatnote to Category:2 bridges. I guess that after two weeks this CFD can be closed Estopedist1 (talk) 05:40, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Estopedist1: I've added a dab to Category:Two Bridges, or should it redirect to Category:Two bridges which then becomes the dab? Josh (talk) 22:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- @Crouch, Swale@DanTD@Epicgenius@Joshbaumgartner I thought that we have DAB like en:Two Bridges. And category:2 bridges is a subcategory of Category:Groups of bridges Estopedist1 (talk) 21:47, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- The category has been renamed properly, Can we close this now? ----DanTD (talk) 14:04, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
- I supposed I should strike opposition to the previous proposal, in spite of the current rename being more acceptable. ----DanTD (talk) 18:49, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- I find the current name of Category:Two Bridges, Manhattan to be satisfactory. I have therefore struck my oppose. epicgenius (talk) 19:15, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
- Well, the current rename is much better, so I'm happy. ----DanTD (talk) 13:16, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
@DanTD, Epicgenius, Tuvalkin, and Estopedist1: Closed (dab created, new category names per comments above) Josh (talk) 05:45, 15 December 2021 (UTC)