Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:100 Faces of the Tenerife Auditorium

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:100 Faces of the Tenerife Auditorium[edit]

FOP in Spain only covers works that are permanently located in public thoroughfare, neither of which apply for these painted stones. So these images are copyrighted until as yet undetermined date since the painter of them, Stojko Gagamov, seems to still be alive.

Adamant1 (talk) 04:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see the artist did not create any original paintings but merely copied existing works. For instance:
Isn't it Wikimedia Commons policy that copying a two-dimensional work does not create a new copyright or authorship? So the copies should be available under the same license as the originals.
-- Renardo la vulpo (talk) 11:55, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If they were 1/1 copies sure then I'd probably agree. You got to admit that a colored painting on a rock isn't the same as a black and white photograph though. Like the last two images of Andrés Segovia don't at all look alike even if its the same general pose. So the artist of the rocks clearly has their own artistic style seperate from the originals that at least IMO makes them different enough to be copyrightable on their own. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:24, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep as the deletion request fails to clearly state a reason for copyright infringement. Whose copyright is being infringed? Are you saying the photos are derivative works, and if so derivatives of whose works? Note that copyright law of Spain has implemented a fairly broad pastiche exception which may influence the status of both the paintings and the photos. Nemo 17:39, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I clearly stated a reason for the copyright infringement and who painted the rocks. Nemo_bis has just been on a hounding campaign copy and pasting the same keep messages in my DRs for some reason. So their "vote" should be ignored for the trolling it is by whomever closes this. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:20, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep I took my photos of these artworks from a public pavement, so I think it counts at FOP. While in theory I guess they could remove the stones that these works are on, they are otherwise permanently located. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Peel: At least according to Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Spain the status of FOP in Spain is unclear and I don't see anything about where the person took the photograph from mattering. If nothing else it clearly doesn't matter since there's essentially FOP in Spain to begin with. Although even if there was I can't any evidence that the location of the photographer at the time matters. What the guideline does say is that it applies to works permanently located "in or on" public thoroughfares. Obviously a rock laden outcropping going into the ocean isn't a "throughfare" and small painted rocks aren't permanent. So do you have source to back up your assertion that where the photographer is standing when they take the picture matters? --Adamant1 (talk) 00:20, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would count them as on a public thoroughfare, since they wouldn't be there if the road wasn't. You could count them as being in a park if you wanted, since there's public access to the beaches around them. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:32, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's an interesting interpretation of the facts to say the least. And one that if followed would mean essentially anything outside in even slightly public place or close to one would qualify for FOP. Which clearly isn't in line with the law or guidelines. We'll have to agree to disagree though. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep IMHO this is a clear case of "if I have doubts, better open a discussion". If it's in open space, it's reasonable to count it as FOP (they state street, square, thoroughfare, they can't list every single element). Just because it's a drawing close to the sea, that doesn't mean it doesn't count as "not permanent": otherwise, also drawings in normal streets should count as not permanent, since they're only degrading slower. "Not permanent" should count as works such as sculptures or paintings or whatever sustained or leant in the place, i.e. removable. These seem to be way overstretched arguments to propose the files for deletion. --Superchilum(talk to me!) 08:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure something like say chalk drawing on the street are considered to be not permanent. In this case the rocks can be taken away, washed into the ocean at a moments notice if there's a storm, the paint can wear off, Etc. Etc. Really, there's zero reason anyone would expect the paintings on the rocks or the rocks themselves to be there in perpetuity. And that's kind of a text book definition of non-permanent. Something obviously meant to be on permanent display if it can be washed away the second there's a storm or someone decides to walk away with it. --Adamant1 (talk) 13:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty questionable. Also considering that they are there since 2011. --Superchilum(talk to me!) 09:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just because they have been there for a few years doesn't meant they are permanent, or that the artist intended them to be, which is what really matters here. Plus how do you know every single rock from the original thing has been there that long or that some of them haven't been re-painted anyway? --Adamant1 (talk) 12:38, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: These are copies of PD works, there is no copyright claim on or near the stones, and there is (possibly) FoP in Spain. These rocks already exist for 10+ years; any FoP work can be removed/destroyed, so the argument of "washed into the ocean" doesn't hold. --Materialscientist (talk) 01:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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