Commons:Village pump

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# 💭 Title 💬 👥 🙋 Last editor 🕒 (UTC)
1 Wrong deletion 40 14 Jmabel 2023-05-31 18:36
2 Should we adopt the proposed Child Protection policy? 21 9 Red-tailed hawk 2023-06-01 13:20
3 File:Jaguar E-Type Roadster Eté2016 Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard en 2009 (1).jpg 10 6 Pierre André Leclercq 2023-05-28 21:08
4 Berlin transit icons 5 2 Minoa 2023-05-29 06:56
5 FileExporter problem? 3 1 JWilz12345 2023-05-29 07:12
6 How to fix a wikidata infobox 4 3 Kerry Raymond 2023-05-29 01:54
7 AI and the decision not to participate 7 4 Jmabel 2023-05-30 18:57
8 Alternative to courtesy deletion: courtesy hiding of author info？ 3 2 RZuo 2023-05-27 12:40
9 License reviews 14 6 トトト 2023-06-01 17:11
10 Question about North Carolina government copyright laws 2 2 Indy beetle 2023-05-25 04:22
11 Ship manifests at https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/ 4 2 Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 2023-05-25 17:11
12 Name change (error in name) 3 2 Janwikifoto 2023-05-27 17:38
13 image probably in wrong Category, but I can't be sure 2 2 Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 2023-05-25 17:12
14 Global ban proposal for Leonardo José Raimundo 1 1 Elton 2023-05-26 00:59
15 Legality of Indian maps 1 1 Novem Linguae 2023-05-26 12:30
16 api to return best images with date for a category 4 2 Vicarage 2023-05-28 06:22
17 stanford.edu 5 2 RZuo 2023-05-27 20:40
18 Selection of the U4C Building Committee 0 0
19 speed graphs 3 2 Smiley.toerist 2023-05-28 08:06
20 Map from Le monde diplomatique 1 1 Semsûrî 2023-05-28 10:37
21 Hidden categories in a file 5 5 Andy Dingley 2023-05-28 22:21
22 Category:Photographs by Alisdare Hickson 6 3 Jmabel 2023-05-29 23:10
23 How to handle sources that are dead links 6 4 Jmabel 2023-05-31 17:51
24 Notification of DMCA takedown demand — Java logo 1 1 JSutherland (WMF) 2023-05-30 23:21
25 Pixabay photo dates 2 2 Jmabel 2023-05-31 17:53
26 Template help needed 4 3 Jarekt 2023-06-01 02:58
27 AI generated media competition 6 4 Donald Trung 2023-06-01 11:50
28 Commons Gazette 2023-06 3 3 JWilz12345 2023-06-01 13:27
29 Notification of DMCA takedown demand — Kempes en Valencia 1 1 JSutherland (WMF) 2023-06-01 17:34
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May 11[edit]

Wrong deletion[edit]

Today, User:Jameslwoodward deleted Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Montpelier.tab and Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Juneau.tab without any valid reason and without any notice. Both sites are U.S. weather stations, both state capitals, and are corroborated by at least two sources. All data are owned by NOAA and are in the public domain. --Fumikas Sagisavas (talk) 06:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This appears to be related to Commons:Deletion requests/Files found with Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather. MKFI (talk) 06:34, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Fumikas Sagisavas: The DR refers to COM:SCOPE. Could you please elaborate how these data tables fit into the scope of this project? I think the problem might be that since the data namespace was launched in 2016 we apparently hadn't much discussion about this. As we are a media archive, something like Data:NewYork.map is surely within scope but I fail to see why we should keep tables with weather data. Thinks like that are probably better hosted at Wikidata. --AFBorchert (talk) 07:11, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Because these data will be directly used as data charts on Wikipedia, but due to technical reasons, it is currently only possible to upload weather data data on shared resources and not on Wikidata. Fumikas Sagisavas (talk) 07:22, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it is at Commons, it has to fit into COM:SCOPE. Technical reasons like other projects do not support that yet are not sufficient to place something at Commons. --AFBorchert (talk) 07:44, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Actually technical reasons might be enough, see COM:INUSE: "It should be stressed that Commons does not overrule other projects about what is in scope. If an image is in use on another project (aside from use on talk pages or user pages), that is enough for it to be within scope." In any case if these files are used and they can't be reasonably hosted in other projects I believe we could adjust COM:Scope to allow them. MKFI (talk) 08:14, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree. If there is a big class of such files we should probably have a more thorough discussion, but rather seeking a solution than just keeping them off Commons. Until that, I don't think we should delete them on scope grounds. –LPfi (talk) 08:38, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As far as I can tell, the data sets in question are very much in line with how the Data: namespace was intended to be used.
The whole Data: namespace was basically introduced through the backdoor before it was ready to be integrated with the rest of Commons. We still don't have any good way to organize it (no categories, no SCD), is does not seem to exist in the documentation and we never properly discussed how it fits in with existing policies (or if we did, the results of those discussions did not trickle down to the actual policy pages).
So +1 to having a thorough discussion. To Do:
  1. Re-visit the old discussions, and refresh our collective memory on plans, intentions and predicted problems
  2. Do some research on how the namespace is actually being used today
  3. Discuss what's good and bad about this
  4. Figure out how that does or does not work with existing policies and adjust policies if necessary
  5. Delete what is not covered by the new policies.
Bonus: Poke developers until they finish what they started.
Do we have something like a Commons:WikiProject data namepace where we could make a plan? El Grafo (talk) 12:08, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Note that d:Wikidata:WikiProject Tabular data exists in the Wikidata community space, for discussions re using the Commons tabular data for data not well suited to Wikidata (ie most tabular data). Any ongoing discussions here should probably give that group a courtesy ping. Jheald (talk) 19:11, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment (orange).svg Comment I don't necessarily have an issue with files containing tabular data being hosted on Commons myself. What I don't like is that .tab files are editable, at least from what I've seen aren't sourced to the original file or website where the information came from, and contain no summary information. Which IMO goes against the guidelines. Also, at least in the case of weather data, the information is added to Wikipedia articles manually anyway. So I don't really see what the difference is between someone entering the data into the Wikipedia article from the original source themselves and it being uploaded here first and then transferred to Wikipedia. Except entering the data here first turns Commons into a buffer zone where the information can't and/or isn't going to be sourced, summarized, corrected, Etc. Etc. There's no reason this information can't just be added to whatever Wikipedia article it's going to be used in and they can deal with the sourcing issues, verify that it's correct, fix the information if it isn't, Etc. Etc. on their end. I don't think that's our job or within the projects scope though. That said, if .tab files couldn't be edited and contained summaries/sources, cool. I don't think they should be hosted on Commons until then though. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @Adamant1: this is a wiki, everything is editable. Making content uneditable is simply against the entire purpose of the project. Just because we don't provide ready-made tools to modify images does not mean that they are immutable. Sourcing for files is needed for copyright reasons but we don't require citations to verify map accuracy. Data files do have both summary descriptions and source parameter - if the editor did not fill them then that may be a reason for deletion. MKFI (talk) 10:39, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@MKFI: There's clearly a difference between someone editing an image using desktop software or the crop tool and uploading a new version of it versus having an "article" that information can be added to in real-time. One still treats Commons like a media repository, and the just recreates Wikipedia with a .tab or whatever at the end of the URL. You can argue about semantic, but editable "page" of tabular data is simply using Commons like Wikipedia. Otherwise there's zero point in having the distinction. As to the rest of what you said, I said the .tab files should have sources. Not that each individual data point in the file needs to citated to something. I'm sure you get the difference. As to if the tab files are sourced or not, they haven't been from what I've seen and at least with the .tab files uploaded by Fumikas Sagisavas there was pushback when I asked for them. Either that, or the files were sourced to a page that didn't contain the file. I have yet to see a .tab file that's sourced to the actual URL where the file came from, probably because the information is added to the file manually from different pages, which again is why they are just glorified Wikipedia articles. --Adamant1 (talk) 17:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Adamant1: The fact that with Commons you need to use a desktop image editing software is a technical limitation, a flaw we should try correct. It is certainly not the model to aspire for. Trying to make Commons more like Wikipedia is very much desirable. Commons is simply a common storage place to support the different Wikipedias; it does not mean that we should be different from them except when needed for a file-centric project. MKFI (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Re: "Commons is simply a common storage place to support the different Wikipedias," I disagree vehemently, and if that were to become a limitation on our scope I would immediately resign from the project. - Jmabel ! talk 20:07, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Not only that, but User:MKFI, have you heard of Wikivoyage, Wikiversity, Wiktionary, etc.? Inform yourself. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:47, 15 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I used "Wikipedia" here to refer to all Wikimedia projects and intended it as a reason to expand our scope, not limit it. While all projects are independent, our decisions affect others more than most but I feel we are sometimes too insular. MKFI (talk) 19:51, 15 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Use "Wikimedia" if you want people to understand you. But in fact, Commons:Project scope is broader than that: "Wikimedia Commons is a media file repository making available public domain and freely-licensed educational media content (images, sound and video clips) to all. It acts as a common repository for all Wikimedia projects, but the content can be used by anyone, anywhere, for any purpose." And making Commons more like Wikipedia could be problematic in several ways, notably including scope but also fair use (unless Commons changes its policy on that, which I doubt we'll see). In which ways do you want to make it more like Wikipedia? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:00, 15 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jameslwoodward: Why have these contested unilateral deletions not yet been undone? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The consensus at Undeletion Requests was that data tables are out of scope, so they were not restored. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 20:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jameslwoodward: are you sure that's an informed consensus? What, then, is :Data space for? - Jmabel ! talk 00:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Further: Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive/2023-05#Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Montpelier.tab that "consensus" appears to consist of one person. So Pinging @Yann, if this is out of scope, what, then, is :Data space for? - Jmabel ! talk 00:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
IMO, there are 2 issues with these pages, as mentioned earlier: there is no source for these tables, and we can't check if they are faithful or not. Then they could easily be implemented in the respective Wikipedia where they should be check for accuracy and suitability. Last but not least, no one except Jim gave an opinion on UDR. Yann (talk) 08:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also note that I have been on Wiki for a long time and have several hundred thousand actions as an Admin and I have never seen anything in the Data: space before this. I'd like to draw your attention to Commons:File_types#Data_files which makes it clear that we do not support the Data file type. Perhaps we should, but that's not a question we can answer here. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 13:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Your lack of awareness is no ground for deletion. There is nothing on that page to support your assertion "we do not support the Data file type"; on the contrary, it says that "data in JSON format in the dedicated Data: namespace" is supported. What is not supported are database file types (emphasis mine). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:03, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jameslwoodward: Link, please. I note also that the disputed flies are the subject of an open deletion discussion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:03, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The discussion is open because I did not have the endurance to delete the files, one at a time since our other mechanisms do not work for data files. While my lack of awareness is certainly not grounds for deletion, it is strongly indicative that this file type very unusual. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 14:16, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think Commons:File types#Tabular data clearly shows that the file is of a type regarded as in scope, so any out-of-scope statement should be complemented by a discussion on why these files, as opposed to other .tab files, aren't in scope. As deleting files supposedly uploaded to be used, is disruptive, we should undelete these now, pending a discussion on and codification of the scope of the data namespace. –LPfi (talk) 17:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
time for desysop.--RZuo (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RZuo: assuming you mean of Jameslwoodward, keep in mind that your comment didn't ping him. That's a pretty strong proposal to go without a notification. - Jmabel ! talk 16:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jameslwoodward: I requested a link. You have failed to provide one. Please do so ASAP. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, I don't understand. You said, "link please", but I don't understand what you want a link to. More broadly, it is clear that this question has generated a lot of heat. I don't feel strongly about the issue, so please resolve it in whatever way the consensus want. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 19:35, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jameslwoodward: No; you don't get to opt out of your responsibilities like that. You have unilaterally deleted files while there is an ongoing and unresolved deletion debate. You have been challenged over that, so you should restore them at least until that debate is concluded. The link I wanted was to where, you claimed, "The consensus at Undeletion Requests was that data tables are out of scope". No-one can find any such consensus, so we need a link to verify that your claim is true. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jameslwoodward: it looks to me like your basis for deletion amounted to, "I think we shouldn't have 'Data' space because tabular data don't belong on Commons" or "I think we shouldn't use 'Data' space because tabular data might get messed up without anyone noticing" or "I was completely unaware of 'Data' space and didn't know Commons handled tabular data". If that was the case, then certainly these should be undeleted. 'Data' space is certainly under-documented, but it isn't as if it was created by mistake or against consensus. This is very like someone deciding that Commons shouldn't have sexual imagery, or Commons shouldn't have materials that some particular government doesn't like: an opinion that has nothing like consensus behind it should not carry the weight of policy simply because an admin happens to hold that opinion.
If there is some specific reason this particular data set is problematic, that might be another matter, but I haven't seen any statement to that effect. And even then, we tend to approach things like that with {{Fact disputed}} etc., not with deletion. It looks to me like these should be undeleted. I would rather see that resolved here by you agreeing to it, but if you won't then I guess I'll start a formal undeletion process, where I suppose we will have to rehash what has been written here. - Jmabel ! talk 22:49, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The UnDRs are at Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive/2023-05#Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Montpelier.tab and the next one after it. Note that both were open for more than the usual 24 hours and that I commented on one and had nothing to do with the other. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 13:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Yann: I believe this was wrongly decided (by you). I'm asking you to reconsider. The statement that tabular data should be somewhere other than Commons seems to me to completely wrong: this is exactly what Data: space is for. - Jmabel ! talk 17:48, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel: Please create another UDR. I won't oppose undeletion, and if there is a consensus I will undelete them. Yann (talk) 18:04, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jameslwoodward, Fumikas Sagisavas, MKFI, AFBorchert, LPfi, El Grafo, Jheald, Adamant1, Ikan Kekek, Pigsonthewing, Ooligan, Yann, and RZuo: New UDR is at Commons:Undeletion requests/Current_requests#Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Montpelier.tab_and_Data:Ncei.noaa.gov/weather/Juneau.tab - Jmabel ! talk 18:36, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 17[edit]

Should we adopt the proposed Child Protection policy?[edit]

I noticed recently that Commons:Child protection is still marked as a draft policy, despite having been in the works for several years. I'd like to start a discussion here with the goal of making it an actual policy on Commons. The policy, as written, is eminently reasonable, serves as a reasonable baseline for child protection, and would help to bring us in line with child protection policies adopted on several other Wikimedia wikis (such as MetaWiki and EnWiki). — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 14:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm in favor of approving this policy, but there is one thing that's glaringly absent from it: a statement that everyone who violates it will be reported to Wikimedia Legal. Should we add that? Why or why not? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:47, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think this is just a summary of other guidelines they are already in place. The "Advice for younger editors" could be advises to all people on the internet. Many of the cases mentioned on the page are not a reason of a infinite block they are cases for T&S and global bans. T&S is currently not even mentioned on the page. If we think we need something like this we should create a general Commons:Privacy and security advises page. GPSLeo (talk) 19:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that would be a wise addition, so I've added that here. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 20:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
How do we figure out which material is considered obscene? The page already says that CSA is against the ToS (obviously) so i figure out the obscene part refer to something else Trade (talk) 21:33, 17 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since we operate in the United States, it would be by applying the Miller Test. I don't anticipate this being an issue we would encounter; genuinely obscene material is going to be out-of-scope, so we'd be deleting it already. The sorts of obscene images that are prohibited by that test cannot have non-trivial literary, artistic, political, or scientific value, and I think that educational media is going to almost always meet one of those.
Frankly, I'm struggling to come up with an example of something that's possibly in educational scope, not covered under CSAM, and also obscene under U.S. law. The closest I can come up with is a video taken by a rapist of them actively brutally raping some non-child being uploaded for use in an article about rape to demonstrate an example of what violent rape looks like—and I think WMF would have to delete it anyway because of applicable law (as well as... ya know... basic human decency, or absent that the Commons:Photographs of identifiable people policy). And even that example feels like a bit of a stretch. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:07, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Might wanna add this into the policy page Trade (talk) 15:11, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And, for what it's worth, the ToU prohibits Posting or trafficking in obscene material that is unlawful under applicable law, so I don't think that this is introducing anything new. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. The proposed policy says: "Those affected should contact an admin by email". I have had very bad experiences with this, when I emailed an admin i really trusted. This should be deleted and perhaps replaced by contacting VRT, where at least several admins can look at it, which is a certain protection against a malicious admin.
  2. It contains a list of things a child can do to not get harrassed. Somehow I had expected a list of things that commons and the community do to protect children (for example implementing a direct message system, that does not expose email addresses by design).

--C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm) (talk) 07:07, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May i ask what happened regarding the admin you emailed? Trade (talk) 15:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Them turned out to be a friend of another well connected user who was later globally locked because of another incident. C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm) (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The other options that we would have would be:
  1. "Those affected should email the Commons oversight team at oversight-commons@lists.wikimedia.org",
  2. "Those affected should email the Commons information team at info-commons@wikimedia.org",
or some combination of the two.
Do either of these stand out as better to you, C.Suthorn? My hunch would be toward pointing towards the oversighters (who are vetted for this sort of sensitive information a bit more closely than admins or random VRT members are), but the problem is that there's typically a good bit of lag between an email being received and an oversight action being taken. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:44, 19 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If there is no suitable group and no suitable email address, a suitable group can be set up and an appropriate email address can be created. For example "protect-me@wikimedia.org"? C.Suthorn (@Life_is@no-pony.farm) (talk) 05:55, 19 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sitting on this a bit more, I think the solution to this would be to try to have more oversighters. This sort of stuff involves the same level (or greater) trust than the other things that get suppressed, so having more people vetted for that purpose would probably be the optimal way forward. In emergencies, Stewards can act, but I don't think that they are going to want to be taking on this stuff (CC: AntiCompositeNumber and DerHexer, Jon Kolbert, who appear to be the only Commons admins who are also Stewards from what I can see). There aren't a shortage of people who are trustworthy enough to perform oversight tasks; the bigger issue is persuading people to run. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:24, 20 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Red-tailed hawk: I have made use of the oversight tool as an emergency action once as there was private information linked to from a public channel in IRC and no local OSer available. I do not have access to the Commons oversighters VRT queue so I do not know what the turnaround is for a response there. I think a step in the right direction would be allow stewards to have access to that queue and amend the Oversight policy on Commons to include language similar to what is included on Wikidata's oversight policy which states "Stewards can perform local oversighting in emergencies, during crosswiki oversighting, or if there are no local oversighters available." That way, requests can be handled promptly even if there is no local oversight immediately available. Jon Kolbert (talk) 00:30, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jon Kolbert As far as I know, there is not a VRT queue, but instead a mailing list. And I don't think a local change is needed to allow Stewards to "perform local oversighting in emergencies, during crosswiki issues, or if there are no local oversighters available", as this is explicitly allowed by the global policy, but I'll update the information page anyways (we have no local oversight policy).
Also, I would add legal-reports@wikimedia.org to the list of people to contact. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The oversighters currently use a google group. I agree that adding legal-reports@wikimedia.org would be prudent. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 13:20, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, i don't think that policy is needed here specifically as its already covered under Wikimedia Foundation's own Terms of Use.. It was something worth discussing a decade back but since WMF started hiring more employees including litigators and lawyers, there is no need for it..--Stemoc 17:30, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just my two cents, but it seems like putting the cart before the horse to have special policies for protecting children when there aren't even basic civility guidelines in place that are being inforced. Let the WMF deal with it if it's something serious, but that's already happening from what I've seen and admins aren't dealing with more minor stuff in the meantime anyway. It would be weirdly discriminatory if they were only dealing with civility issues or harrasement if either one involved children but not anyone else. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that we need to work on getting COM:CIVILITY to policy status and actually enforcing civility norms. I think that's orthogonal to this discussion, though, and I don't see making progress on one as blocking progress on the other. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just today a user was warned for copyvio despite my ban request being for posting pornography of a woman without her consent. No amount of policy will matter if admins don't actually read the block requests. Trade (talk) 00:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 21[edit]

File:Jaguar E-Type Roadster Eté2016 Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard en 2009 (1).jpg[edit]

Greetings. I have come upon an improperly named image file that needs changing but don't know how to do it. I see no commands or appropriate options. This is the file: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jaguar_E-Type_Roadster_Et%C3%A92016_Marcq-en-Baroeul_dfil-du-grand-boulevard_en_2009_(1).jpg. The problem is that it does not show an E-type Jaguar (see a selection of proper images here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=jaguar+e-type+&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image) but an MG-A instead (https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=mga+roadster&title=Special:MediaSearch&go=Go&type=image) - which the author themselves realizes is the car portrayed in the misnamed file (confirmed in their description of the image here: MG A Roadster au défilé du Grand Boulevard du 27-09-09 à Marcq-en-Barœul, Nord).

Please, whoever has the ability to make this change, do so, as (unfortunately) my ISP changes at least once daily, and I cannot always remember what pages or files I may have worked on here or at Wikipedia and am provided no means of maintaining continuity with a previous day's work. So leaving instructions (even if an unregistered user can carry them out) may still not work out for me to make the change. Thank you, whoever steps up and makes the simple but necessary alteration to the file name. 2601:196:180:DC0:693C:8091:E454:316C 10:03, 21 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If you note on what page you discussed an issue, you will find it there (or in some cases in an archive of that page, note some keywords to find it more easily). Only appointed users can move files on Commons, but you can request a move, adding {{rename|Jaguar MG A Roadster Eté2016 Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard en 2009 (1).jpg|3|MG A, not E.}} or something similar (the "3" stands for "obvious error"). –LPfi (talk) 10:54, 21 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you User:LPfi for your reply. What page? Where? All I know is that an image file (as indicated) is misnamed. Where to request a "move" to a page with the correct information I do not know. Thank you. 2601:196:180:DC0:B9E8:3C0F:92D8:FB6C 06:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • You request the move on the file page (the page you linked as the heading to this section). - Jmabel ! talk 17:07, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, you should probably register a user name, which would solve the issue of not being able to keep track of your edits. –LPfi (talk) 10:55, 21 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Honestly, this is not helpful, as I do not understand the instructions. Could you, or someone else who does understand them, please make the move (as the reason for it has been established unambiguously). Thank you. 2601:196:180:DC0:418A:4C5D:8FF9:C500 09:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Are you saying that because the original uploader didn't contest this edit by User:Alfa164 they are assumed to have actively confirmed it? That seems a bit extreme. Perhaps they never even noticed it.
@Pierre André Leclercq: as uploader, could you confirm whether you agree that Alfa164 and the anonymous IP here are correct? I'm totally out of my area of expertise here. I'd be glad to make the move if it is correct, but I try not to do this on things I can't evaluate. - Jmabel ! talk 16:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jmabel I don't remember seeing Alfa164 during the Grand Boulevard Parade on 09-27-09. I photographed the Jaguar E-Type Roadster three times ( photos taken three seconds apart)
File:Jaguar E-Type Roadster Eté2016 Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard en 2009 (1).jpg Profil
File:Jaguar E-Type Roadster Eté2016 Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard en 2009 (2).jpg Left front fender
File:Jaguar Eté2016 Jaguar type E Marcq-en-Baroeul dfil-du-grand-boulevard 2009.jpg Car grille with logo Jaguar
The image of the car's grille clearly shows the Jaguar logo and his driver at the wheel wears a red cap.
Best regards Pierre André (talk) 20:48, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That looks pretty definitive to me, so declining the move. - Jmabel ! talk 20:55, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Face-smile.svg Thank you. Thanks you Pierre André (talk) 21:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 22[edit]

Berlin transit icons[edit]

I am exploring the possibility of refreshing the U-Bahn and S-Bahn icons (located here and here respectively), but I have run into an issue where the colours in the BVG website, S-Bahn website and VBB map are inconsistent. The following table contains the hexadecimal values from my research into three sources: the BVG website, the S-Bahn website, and the VBB map:

Mode and line colours
Line BVG (web) DB (web) VBB (map)
Modes[1][2][3]
Regio
 
be1414
 
e10a17
 
e2001a
S-Bahn
 
45935d
 
007238
 
008d4f
U-Bahn
 
115d91
 
1e6ab2
 
0066ad
Tram
 
be1414
 
cc151a
 
e2001a
Bus
 
95276e
 
a01c7d
 
a5027d
Ferry
 
528dba
 
0099d6
 
009bd5
S-Bahn[4][2][3]
S1
 
bc6194
 
eb588f
 
da6ba2
S2/25/26
 
457236
 
047939
 
007734
S3
 
115d91
 
026597
 
0066ad
S41
 
a0542e
 
aa3c1f
 
ad5937
S42
 
af6223
 
ba622d
 
cb6418
S45/46/47
 
bc9144
 
ca8539
 
cd9c53
S5
 
ee771e
 
ea561c
 
eb7405
S7/75
 
8c6dab
 
764d9a
 
816da6
S8/85
 
7dad4c
 
4fa433
 
66aa22
S9
 
701c28
 
951732
 
992746
U-Bahn[4][2][3]
U1
 
7dad4c
 
7dad4c
 
7dad4c
U2
 
da421e
 
da421e
 
da421e
U3
 
16683d
 
2e937d
 
16683d
U4
 
f0d722
 
f0d722
 
f0d722
U5/55
 
7e5330
 
7e5330
 
7e5330
U6
 
8c6dab
 
8c6dab
 
8c6dab
U7
 
528dba
 
528dba
 
528dba
U8
 
224f86
 
224f86
 
224f86
U9
 
f3791d
 
f3791d
 
f3791d
Fare zones[4][2][3]
A
 
be5a00
 
fba71d
 
bd5a00
B
 
008291
 
1a9c9f
 
008291
C
 
5a821e
 
8dc73f
 
5a821e

I am aware that the U-Bahn line icon colours were changed by Teo.raff in 2020, in response to Berliner_Verkehrsbetriebe § Farben. However, I am minded to contest the changes because they are notably darker and desaturated, especially with the U7 icon. However, I have problems trying to find the Basiselemente (CD-Manual), as referenced in the German article. I wonder if anyone can help me find that because (1) I may look at using the Pantone hexadecimal values instead from the colour book that I happen to have, and (2) I don't know if the Basiselemente gives those exact hexadecimal values that the website uses. --Minoa (talk) 03:49, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Minoa So what? Sometimes in life there is not a single correct answer for something and that's OK. Suggest to watch this video on "the" American flag and embrace the chaos. El Grafo (talk) 08:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@El Grafo: Understood, although the discovery of the VBB handbook means I am close to answering my own question, with the choice between RGB and CMYK yet to be decided due to lack of time for now. ;-) Either way, I will be documenting the sources and my colour selection process. --Minoa (talk) 22:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Minoa That one seems like an easy one: CMYK only really makes sense for professional printing. Or main target audience will almost exclusively view our media on some form of screen, which is RGB. Go for RGB. El Grafo (talk) 07:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

29 May update[edit]

I am pleased to inform readers that I have started the process of modernising the transit icons (see {{Berlin transit icons}}), starting with the S-Bahn: I have recreated the icons straight from the TransitLinie fonts that I happen to have, just like what I did with the Standard set of the New York City Subway bullets. A video of an old rollsign from the DBAG Class 476 allowed me to expand the S-Bahn icon set.

@El Grafo: I accept your recommendation that the colours should be VBB's RGB values, apart for U7, which will use VBB's colour for the Fähre (since they were meant to use the same colour). --Minoa (talk) 06:56, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

  1. ↑ CSS Stylesheet (Modes) (CSS). Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe (16 May 2023). Archived from the original on 21 May 2023. Retrieved on 21 May 2023.
  2. ↑ a b c d CSS Stylesheet. S-Bahn Berlin. Deutsche Bahn (30 April 2023). Archived from the original on 21 May 2023. Retrieved on 21 May 2023.
  3. ↑ a b c d "Farben Liniensignets" in (in German) (6 May 2022) Handbuch VBB-Richtlinien Fahrgastinformation (May 2022 ed.), Berlin: Verkehrsverbund Berlin-Brandenburg, pp. 8,11,135
  4. ↑ a b c CSS Stylesheet (Lines) (CSS). Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe (16 May 2023). Archived from the original on 21 May 2023. Retrieved on 21 May 2023.

FileExporter problem?[edit]

Lately I'm experiencing slowdown in image file transfers, especially when transferring User:Patrickroque01's tons of local enwiki photos to Commons using FileEx/Importer tool. I've suffered a major error while transferring his File:Saint Stephen The Protomartyr Church Ligao (San Esteban, Ligao, Albay; 04-16-2023).jpg to Commons. The error message reads "Import failed. Failed to commit operations". But after forcefully reloading/refreshing, the message claims the file exists here. Yes it exists, but the photo or the thumbnail versions cannot be downloaded. Kindly check the photo file. I'm not sure if it is a problem of FileEx/Importer tool or a problem of my network provider or my phone's browser app which tends to slow down when accessing most of Wikimedia Commons. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 11:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Seems ok now (or so?). I'll tag the enwiki copy for speedy deletion any way. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Pictogram voting info.svg Info
another photo by Patrickroque01 (talk · contribs) suffered this failed importation problem while I'm trying to transfer the local file to Commons: File:Dalakit Beach, Pacific waves (Catarman, Northern Samar; 04-27-2023).jpg. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 07:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to fix a wikidata infobox[edit]

The infobox on Category:Queensland has the name of the former governor Paul de Jersey not the present Governor Jeannette Young. I looked on Wikidata but the governor there does appear to be Jeannette Young, so why is the wikidata infobox on Commons wrong? And, more importantly, how do I fix it? Thanks Kerry Raymond (talk) 12:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

If you mean the Wikidata item d:Q36074, as "head of government" Paul de Jersey and Annastacia Palaszczuk are listed there. And same is displayed in the infobox, so IMO nothing surprising here. Regards --A.Savin 12:51, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kerry Raymond: I've updated the governor on Wikidata. Hope that resolves this issue. SHB2000 (talk) 10:06, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, User:SHB2000! Kerry Raymond (talk) 01:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 24[edit]

AI and the decision not to participate[edit]

I had been about scanning and uploading my old photos of unusual places to Wikimedia Commons, but then I decided not to. Why? The immediate and unresolved problems of AI-based images: wholesale licensing theft. I have my doubts about this getting resolved any time soon due to the piratical nature of tech CEOs. THSlone (talk) 00:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • How is looking at your image, stealing it? They don't store a copy of your image, the AI just looks at it, an stores an impression of it. Just like me being inspired by a Jackson Pollock painting to copy his style. And if you don't store them here, they will probably be tossed in the garbage in one or two more generations. No one will remember who you were, and why the images were important to you. Sites like Flickr are threatening to delete once you stop paying, Google just announced all your cloud storage will be deleted if you don't log in for two years. --RAN (talk) 04:20, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Richard Arthur Norton, About 10 (ten) years ago Google used to delete your cloud content after 9 (nine) months, the irony is that while Moore's law's demise meant that computing power hasn't grown exponentially, computer storage technology is still on an exponential curve. This means that despite computer storage becoming cheaper companies offer less of it and will delete your files more, my guess is that the AI training software doesn't need stored files anymore as people upload a lot of files to services like Meta's Facebook, Google's YouTube, and Bytedance's TikTok. My guess is that the Wikimedia Commons isn't a large source for AI training to begin with either. Plus as storage becomes cheaper less donation money is needed by the WMF to maintain the Wikimedia Commons.
      Uploading old photographs from the pre-smartphone era also allows a period in history to be preserved that I think a century from now people will be cursing at us for not having preserved as much of it.
      This is also why I'm for direct co-operation with SmugMug for us to import freely licensed images from Flickr, it's clear that a lot of data will be destroyed and nobody is doing anything to preserve so many files of historical value. -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 08:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Twitter also announced they will begin deleting inactive accounts. --RAN (talk) 12:11, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Richard Arthur Norton, I wonder if the Internet Archive is planning on doing anything with that or if Elon Musk is willing to work together with the Internet Archive. I am convinced that 50 (fifty) or a hundred (100) years from now the Internet Archive will become one of the Wikimedia Commons' biggest source of content, though future generations will curse us for preserving so little. I really hope that OP will change their mind on not wanting to upload, AI will train regardless. Plus humans also train their creativity by looking at existing works, I've never heard of an art school where they never look at an existing piece of art, but for robots we somehow consider it "stealing" to simply look at our works for inspiration.
      To be fair, even Andy Warhol wasn't exempt from this. -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • If generative AI was just looking at text and images, it wouldn't be a problem as far as I'm concerned. It is doing much more than that by creating new text and images from pirated text and images, what is known as derivative work in copyright jargon. There are already lawsuits regarding copyright theft from generative AI.[2] Lawsuits based on Creative Commons licensing would seem to be harder to enforce than copyright. I'm more inclined to upload my images for the common good than I am doing what amounts to free labor for tech companies and their affiliated billionaires. THSlone (talk) 00:33, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
        • @THSlone: just out of curiosity: does this mean you will no longer put images online anywhere? Because I don't see how images on Commons are more subject to this than others. For that matter, the same can be said of writing text online. - Jmabel ! talk 18:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alternative to courtesy deletion: courtesy hiding of author info？[edit]

sometimes users want to delete files that were uploaded long ago and depict notable subjects. commons doctrines are that licences are irrevocable so these requests are often refused. but i think, author info could be hidden so that the authors would no longer be associated with them, if they request that? the motivation is it's possible that the subjects depicted may bring legal action or whatever threats to pressure and coerce the authors.--RZuo (talk) 18:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The CC licenses allow name removal requests by the author. So this should be no problem. But we do not have a defined procedure for this. GPSLeo (talk) 21:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
i think this alternative should be written down and mentioned in the relevant pages, so that users are not frustrated by the lack of ways to dissociate themselves from the unwanted uploads.--RZuo (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

License reviews[edit]

Hi, Manual license review obviously doesn't scale. We have files waiting reviewing for more than 2 years. Couldn't we have a bot reviewing licenses for files from YouTube and Vimeo, like we have for Flickr? Yann (talk) 19:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Actually there was a bot, supposed to be replaced by another bot, which stopped working more than one year ago. I could run it myself. The bot master is not active, but has anyone a copy of the code? Yann (talk) 20:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Yann I looked into this a while ago, and could not find the code. Eatcha did not reply to email either. I actually (just before seeing your comment) had requested a list of Toolforge tools for which Eatcha was owner phab:T337432, so one or both of us could hopefully adopt the tools per policy. Hopefully it was on Toolforge like some of their other tools! —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 20:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
i've been wanting to reform the youtube bot review process for a long time. instead of letting a bot review files by itself, i think it should be done like this:
  1. the bot reviews a file (whose source=youtube) only to verify the given youtube link is youtube-cc-by. this puts the file into a category "files reviewed by youtubebot pending human reviews".
  2. a human would check if the commons file does actually come from that youtube link, and pass it. then the file is put into a category "files reviewed by youtubebot and reviewer".
flickrbot can review files by itself because it verifies whether commons copy is identical to flickr copy, but it's obviously not feasible for youtubebot to do that.
"files reviewed by youtubebot pending human reviews" is less urgent than the current "licence review needed", because at least the given youtube link would be verified to be ccby. it doesnt matter if the licence would be changed later. the only problem would be if the video disappears before a human reviews it. then we can review the files on a case-by-case basis to decide if evidence is sufficient to establish the authenticity of the files. RZuo (talk) 22:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
In my experience of reviewing files from YouTube, reviewing could be tedious but we need to endure that. Not all freely-licensed YouTube videos are decent. They may look decent at first but later on one may find third-party content that the YouTube author incorporated in their video. That third-party content may come from unfree sources like screenshots from ABS-CBN newscasts or citizens' video shots that were not originally from the YouTube author but the author just included them in their video. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 00:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Yann: Last time we discussed this (Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/04#103,857_unreviewed_files) I did a suggestion on how to split up the work to make it more manageable. I was told this is a really bad idea and didn't feel like spending any energy on this anymore. I can just assume that user hasn't learned yet that the wiki way is to eat an elephant one bite at a time and for that the work needs to be bite sized so more people help out a little. Multichill (talk) 13:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Category:Files moved to Commons requiring review is split up by date. is that bite-sized enough for you? now is 2023, but the oldest subcat is Files moved to Commons requiring review as of 29 April 2008‎ (28 F) from 15 years ago. notably, that subcat was created at 20:11, 5 March 2009‎ by BotMultichillT.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Arash_Arabasadi_-_.@VOANews_HalftimeShow_is_about_to_start_at_SuperBowlLII.webm&diff=prev&oldid=398248932 added the file to "Twitter videos review needed" (which is small enough with only 13 files), but 3 years after this edit and 5 years after upload it remains unreviewed.
shifting files around in maintenance cats only make some users feel good, but doesnt actually help with shortening the queue. RZuo (talk) 15:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Category:Files requiring license review sorted by user name has 1k gallery pages, but the review process was obviously not sped up even with this aid. RZuo (talk) 16:14, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • My guess is that WMF is waiting for AI to become intelligent enough to handle these reviewing tasks. Maybe 10 years later? If an AI-fortied bot can do all the tedious tasks, why humans do the same things spending their precious time? --トトト (talk) 14:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
A video clip I uploaded from Youtube have has been deleted today. The author changed the license before it is to be reviewed here, I think. If the LicenseReviewerBot had been active, this must have been prevented. Sad to see a quality media being deleted, and I fear that people will become reluctant to upload medias from Youtube in the future. --トトト (talk) 15:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC) 0〔tekst gecorrigeerd. --トトト (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)〕Reply[reply]
dont write shorts url. use this kind of link instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVf9IrVGHSo . RZuo (talk) 16:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Thank you for the new URL. I've requested undeletion of the file. --トトト (talk) 16:54, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:ANA_LABORDETA_2008.jpg&diff=prev&oldid=766959842 took me quite some time to find the actual webpage. is this effort to find the source worthwhile? or should we just send this to DR and let the uploader fix it properly? RZuo (talk) 16:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 25[edit]

Question about North Carolina government copyright laws[edit]

Hello, while trying to find out about the VRT process regarding government documents published by the North Carolina Department of Transportation, a fellow editor made a good point that those documents, and many like them, could be considered "public records" under Chapter 132 of North Carolina state law. Though, there is some confusion on the basis of what the statute defines a "public record" as (the public being able to view gov. records vs. the public being able to view and modify/reuse gov. records). If anyone knows something about state copyright laws, is there enough justification in this statute that could allow the creation of a public domain license tag on Wikimedia Commons for documents created by the government bodies in North Carolina? Thank you for your help and have a great day! DiscoA340 (talk) 04:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Adding on to the above, this "Copyright Decisions" page from the Government and Heritage Library of the State Library of North Carolina says "Most of these [North Carolina state publications] are considered to be in the public domain, pursuant to General Statute 132-1b," which is the section of law which defines what constitutes a public record. Despite this, other state sources do not treat their files/photos/publications this way, as evidenced by the different licenses with which agencies' official Flickr pages will use, and other various references to some state works being copyrighted. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:22, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ship manifests at https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/[edit]

Has anyone figured out how to download ship manifests at https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/ (SOL)? The same manifests are available at Ancestry and Familysearch, but sometimes this website indexed the name properly, so it shows up in a search. It would just be easier to download from the SOL website, rather than trying to refind the same page at one of the other websites, where the name is misspelled in the index. RAN (talk) 12:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

fascinating website. thx for sharing! RZuo (talk) 13:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It is a very good website, Ancestry has the same images, but it is a pay site, although Ancestry is free through Wikipedia Library. I always search both because of spelling errors, when each created an index by transcribing the names. At Ancestry you can fix the spelling errors. --RAN (talk) 17:11, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • OK, I figured it out. It is a two step process. Add the "Enable Right Click for Google Chrome" extension, then when you are on the page you want to download click the extension's icon and right click is enabled for that page. Then you have to use the procedure: right click > Inspect > Application. From there you can click on each graphic element. Once you found the right one, you can use "save as". The second step is the same one you use to download eBay images. --RAN (talk) 17:07, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Name change (error in name)[edit]

Need name change. Many files uploaded by me have name "Hans Dahlberg...."-something, error. Should be "Hans_Dahlgren..."-same-something. Example file "Hans Dahlberg.21f337.1072176 03.jpg" ERROR - should be "Hans Dahlgren.21f337.1072176 03.jpg" Correct. In only this example, I have corrected the category and desciption, so all instances of "berg" should be changed to "gren"... Sorry, I was in stress. I applied and got a long time ago FILEMOVER right, and if I had that still, I could have changed the name. See this as an application for FILEMOVER rights. It is much better that the file uploader has the name-change-rights, automatically. Hope for a speedy change! --Janwikifoto (talk) 13:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Will look at the names soon. Filemover, it is very difficult for the souls who do not log in here every day, to find much information. I really dislike that searching for "Filemove" only brings up a lot of images. This is a problem with all wikipedia info. Anyway, now I got the right link! Thanks! --Janwikifoto (talk) 17:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

image probably in wrong Category, but I can't be sure[edit]

The Category:Thomas Francis Kennedy (bishop) has an image that is highly unlikely to be an image of this person (Kennedy/bishop). It is a colour photograph (not colourised) that claims to be the bishop's confirmation, though this particular bishop's confirmation occurred in 1907. The Description notes this is the confirmation of "Bishop Tomas Kennedy" - note different spelling of 'Tomas' v. 'Thomas'. My guess is that this needs to be moved to its own Category, not just deleted, but I can't be sure, so I'm not willing to make the move myself. Seauton (talk) 16:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Good catch of an error. I removed it from the category. File:Consecrationbishoptomas.jpg. The Irish need to broaden their names lexicon or add an extra given name like in Germany. An Irish death record is terrible too, they list the name of the dead and their age at death. No name of the parents. --RAN (talk) 17:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 26[edit]

Global ban proposal for Leonardo José Raimundo[edit]

There is an on-going discussion about a proposal that Leonardo José Raimundo be globally banned from editing all Wikimedia projects. You are invited to participate at Requests for comment/Global ban for Leonardo José Raimundo on Meta-Wiki. Thank you! Elton (talk) 00:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Legality of Indian maps[edit]

This discussion about the legality of Indian maps seems like it might be relevant to Commons: w:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Communications from government of India to Wikimedia Foundation regarding content about maps depicting the borders of India. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

api to return best images with date for a category[edit]

I am developing Expounder (https://wiki.johnbray.org.uk/Expounder), a system to create wikis populated by wikidata, with a geographical/historical focus. As part of this I'm creating an Images tab with 12 images from Commons for the item, eg for ship HMS Belfast (https://warlike.johnbray.org.uk/Q757178). To do this I'm currently scraping the Commons category page for the item, but I would prefer to use the Good Pictures filter to get someone's opinion of the best 12 images, and to return the date the pictures were taken, as the focus of the site is historical. Is there an API I can query that returns "best 12 pictures with dates for Category:X"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vicarage (talk • contribs) 12:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Your best bet is to look for featured pictures, quality images and maybe valued images, but Commons image search often doesn't work. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I looked through the API, and it seems that https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=categorymembers&cmtitle=Category:HMS_Belfast_(C35)&cmprop=timestamp%7Ctitle is the best I can do, getting the timestamp when a file was added, not the date the image was taken. I have raised https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337605 to get the date added as return value Vicarage (talk) 09:08, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I found the generator option, but none of the prop values want to give me the date which is clearly in the target image pages, which is very frustrating. The exception is the cirrus opens which give far too much information. https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=json&formatversion=2&generator=categorymembers&gcmtitle=Category:Deal_Castle&gcmnamespace=6&gcmlimit=500&prop=imageinfo
    the date= information in the template is too wooly and difficult to parse, so I looked at the structured data where inception (P581) or point in time (P585) could be assigned, but I suspect too few people ever do that for it to be worth the file by file parsing. So historical Wikimedia images are too vague for me. Perhaps someone will write a structured data API sometime. Vicarage (talk) 14:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I came up with this, thhough it was a battle using WMs query service rather than WDs.
    SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?image ?date ?label ?qualityLabel WHERE {
*:::  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en". }
*:::  {
*:::    SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?date ?image
*:::      (COALESCE(?label1,?label2) AS ?label)
*:::      (SAMPLE(?quality1) AS ?quality) WHERE {
*:::      ?item wdt:P180 wd:Q757178. # HMS Belfast
*:::      
*:::      OPTIONAL {?item rdfs:label ?label1}
*:::      ?item schema:url ?url.
*:::      BIND (wikibase:decodeUri(substr(str(?url),52)) AS ?image)
*:::      BIND (REPLACE(?image,".jpg","") AS ?label2)
*:::      OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P571 ?date}
*:::      OPTIONAL {?item wdt:P6731 ?quality1.}
*:::    }
*:::    GROUP BY ?item ?date ?image ?label1 ?label2
*:::  }
*:::}
*:::ORDER BY DESC(?quality) DESC(?label)
*:::LIMIT 12
*:::
    Try it! Vicarage (talk) 06:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

stanford.edu[edit]

Stanford University has a huge collection of interesting documents (everything online until 1927 shows 991,157 results). Many documents are available for download, but I can't find any way to download whole books. Any idea? They also have a silly license, claiming a copyright on everything, even 2D reproduction of old documents. Yann (talk) 22:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wonderful website. thx for sharing.
For some files I checked, they labeled the files correctly as no copyright restriction?
It seems you might have to download the single images (using a script maybe) and then put them together into a pdf by yourself.--RZuo (talk) 12:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RZuo: Which document did you look at? For all documents, I can read (e.g. [3], 1651) This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non Commercial Share Alike 3.0 Unported license (CC BY-NC-SA). The issue with downloading with a script is that each page has a random URL. Yann (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/2952427 click menu button in top left corner of the viewer and then click (c) symbol, it says "...free of known restrictions..."
https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/kh686yw0435 at the bottom: pdm 1.0.
for some files, the download url seems to be consistent? like for https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/kh686yw0435 url is https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/kh686yw0435/kh686yw0435_0001.jp2 . you can see how the link for each page would be constructed as long as you have that identifier string.
but for ys662xf7842 the download url of jp2 is https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/ys662xf7842/21637.jp2 , indeed irregular. RZuo (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
that NC licence is probably their standard for "Image from the The Barry Lawrence Ruderman Map Collection", i guess. RZuo (talk) 20:40, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 27[edit]

Selection of the U4C Building Committee[edit]

The next stage in the Universal Code of Conduct process is establishing a Building Committee to create the charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C). The Building Committee has been selected. Read about the members and the work ahead on Meta-wiki.

-- UCoC Project Team, 04:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

speed graphs[edit]

There does not seem to be a category for graphs in general and for speed diagrams/graphs in particular.

examples:

Graph of Bicycle Speed.png

,

STOPLightSignGraph.png

,

logaritmic

Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:07, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Smiley.toerist: Category:Charts (in general), Category:Line charts (for these). - Jmabel ! talk 16:20, 27 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have added files to Category:Kilometres per hour. Of course there a similar category in 'Miles per hour' and other speed measurement categories.Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 28[edit]

Map from Le monde diplomatique[edit]

This file File:Yezidi populated area.png had no source which I therefore had to find and add. However, I am still uncertain about the copyright of the map as I could not find any info on it on mondediplo.com. Assuming the site is an ofshoot of lemonde.fr, I also checked that site and the what I found was [4] which states:

Not to infringe the rights of a third party - Not to post, record or transmit copyrighted material, unless they can guarantee they have obtained the permission of the rights holder and can provide proof of this.

The map is listed under public domain which is incorrect or are we to assume the uploader has received permission from creator? Semsûrî (talk) 10:37, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hidden categories in a file[edit]

Appreciated community: I have an issue with the hidden categories in the file known as "The clays of the round carpet".

This file was created by me and posted here last March, but there are 3 hidden categories to which this file is adscribed: Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike missing SDC copyright status, Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 missing SDC copyright license and Self-published work missing SDC copyright license. It has been 2 months since I posted the file and the file shouldn't be adscribed to these categories.

I hope there's a solution for this as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance. Universalis (talk) 18:19, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Though that doesn't answer your question: I wonder, have you really drawn all of the 50+ elements in this image by yourself? --Túrelio (talk) 18:36, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
These categories are used only by bots and you should not worry about them. Ruslik (talk) 19:28, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Universalis: How exactly is it a problem for you that the files are tagged with categories that indicate bot tasks that ought to happen eventually? - Jmabel ! talk 19:36, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • The "problem" is SDC – Structured Data. At some point in the future, a 'bot will wander past and copy the visible text version of the licenses here to magic "Structured Data" copies. Then the cats will go.
Don't worry about it. It's really not a problem. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:21, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category:Photographs by Alisdare Hickson[edit]

This is an extension of Commons:Deletion requests/Files found with "roguenation.org", which was resolved as having a strong consensus to keep, but to rewrite the captions for neutrality. (They also need some category work and {{Taken on}}.) We have a bunch of excellent photographs here, but they were uploaded with very polemical descriptions. User:Ikan Kekek and I have now been through the bulk of them. Typical cleanup has been along the lines of [5]. It turns out that there are more photos in Category:Photographs by Alisdare Hickson that didn't get included in that deletion request and which have similar issues. Help in cleaning those up would be greatly appreciated. This has been a lot of work, but the images are definitely worth saving. - Jmabel ! talk 21:57, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'll have a look when I can, and any other help would definitely be appreciated. Thanks, Jmabel. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Maybe we should have a template for image descriptions that needs to be "neutralized" or what else you wanna call it? Trade (talk) 12:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Trade: Fine with me. & that should place the file in a maintenance cat.
Keep the template simple, something like "The file description may need to be rewritten for neutrality (NPOV)." - Jmabel ! talk 14:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Further status: all of the ones in Commons:Deletion requests/Files found with "roguenation.org" are now handled. - Jmabel ! talk 22:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For the more general issue, I've now created {{NPOV}}. Someone is welcome to enhance it with date tracking, multi-lingual approach, etc. I've kept it very simple for now. It places files in the new maintenance category Category:Files needing neutral descriptions. - Jmabel ! talk 23:10, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 29[edit]

How to handle sources that are dead links[edit]

Lately I've been noticing a good amount of sources for files that are either dead links or pages that don't contain the file. So what exactly, if anything, should be done in those cases? I guess there's a "dead link" template, but at least from what I've seen they just sit there for years without being dealt with. The other option would trying to find a backup of the page on the Way Back Machine, but it wouldn't allow for someone to view or download the original file anyway. Not to mention I find a backup of a website on there as it is. And I assume just deleting the links would be looked down on, even if it's technically "correct." So I'm wondering what other options there are, if any, to deal with dead links or pages that don't contain the files besides the ones I've already mentioned. Thanks. Adamant1 (talk) 07:58, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It depends. Were the picture verified before the URL died? Trade (talk) 12:13, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No clue. I assume so. Otherwise I don't know why the uploader would have added it as a source. I guess that is something to consider though. --Adamant1 (talk) 14:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We ask for a source, so it is natural that the user provides a link. The upload wizard doesn't give much advice on what link to choose and some sites don't make it easy to get a good link. The uploader is not requested to prevent link rot. I assume some links are checked in connection with new upload patrolling, otherwise they may or may not survive until somebody happens to check them.
I think one should leave the link, unless one finds a good one to substitute. Somebody might be able to deduce something from the original, and not everybody studies the history to find the replaced link. Adding an archive link (or adding a comment on the original site) does no harm though, and may save the file in the future.
If the link looks like a plausible source, we should assume good faith and not delete as "source missing". If we have reason to assume there might be problems, then we have a problem, but that's when to try to handle them.
–LPfi (talk) 08:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If the link looks like a plausible source, we should assume good faith Your free to disagree, but I just see dealing with dead links (however that's done) as part of the basic task of maintaining a good media repository. So in no is fixing a dead link (again, however we do that) an assumption of bad faith. It's not like I've claimed the links are dead because the uploader intentionally linked to bad URL. I just don't dead links are helpful. Like look it this way, say there's an image that is hard to identify or that the person looking at the image wants to find out more information about, but the source is a 401 error. Sure, we could just leave it so no one cries foul about how the person who fixes is being bad faithed or whatever, but how exactly does that help anyone? The whole point in having a source is so people can find out more information about the file and confirm the license of the image if they want to. So in the best of cases dead links are a wash, in the worst case they get in the way of people using the summary field how it was intended. Especially if there is a large number of dead links. Again, it's just a basic maintenance issue that would be worth dealing with if there's a good way to. I never said it was anything more than that, but it's still a problem nonetheless. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:35, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm basically with LPfi here: if you can give an updated link (or an archive link), great. Otherwise, mark the link as dead, but don't delete it. - Jmabel ! talk 17:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 30[edit]

[edit]

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the WMF office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.

The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#Java logo. Thank you! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 23:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

May 31[edit]

Pixabay photo dates[edit]

Is there a way to tell when a photo posted to Pixabay was taken? The site seems to show only the date that it was posted to the site and the date that it was reviewed and approved by an administrator. Pixabay doesn't seem to preserve exif/metadata either so there are no hints there. For example, all I can guess about this photo was that it was taken sometime before July 19, 2016. --Denniscabrams (talk) 16:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template help needed[edit]

I deleted Category:Most populous cities of the world per Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/02/Category:Most populous cities of the world. Now Template:Most populous cities of the world needs to be modified to not use Category:Most populous cities of the world, but I can't work out how to do this. - Jmabel ! talk 17:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jmabel: I think this did it. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 01:23, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! Sadly, it looks like someone also added Category:Most populous cities of the world overtly to a bunch of categories. Can't use VFC to remove it from categories. Anyone have any ideas for removing this efficiently? - Jmabel ! talk 02:32, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Pictogram voting keep-light-green.svg Fixed with Cat-a-lot. --Jarekt (talk) 02:58, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

June 01[edit]

AI generated media competition[edit]

I was thinking about proposing Commons:Photo challenge for AI generated media, but I would like to use it for some ways to positively impact Commons and Wikimedia movement in general, or at the minimum shape the content in such a way as to minimize chances that many entries will be deleted. So the images would have to be within Commons scope, should not infringe on copyrights (no Disney characters). Some use cases where AI generated images could be useful:

  • images of Coats of arms based on public domain definitions (blazons)
  • images depicting hard to get subjects like displays of different human emotions, like anxiety,
  • images of different generic mythical, fantasy characters, D&D characters or some other characters have copyrighted specific renditions but which can be described in generic terms, like "wizards", "elves", "warlocks", "druids", etc.
  • images of Science fiction topics, like view of Saturn moons and rings from Saturn surface or rock-climbing robot from one of w:Stanisław Lem stories
  • images of celebrities, for whom we do not have good photographs. Can this be done without copyright infringement?
  • depictions of stigmatized topics, like w:Childhood obesity or Depression

Inviting various participants of AI related discussions and photo challenge discussions: @Kritzolina, Nosferattus, Jmabel, Yann, King of Hearts, Trade, and 1989: . Any thoughts about above use cases or about other AI friendly use cases? Jarekt (talk) 01:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • I'd be very hesitant on the celebrities, unless your goal is to see how many DR fights we can start. - Jmabel ! talk 01:22, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • This was already debated many times, and no, images created by AI are usually not copyright violations (except a few specific cases). I tried to create images of personalities with AI for which we don't have images, but it didn't work (I chose Michel Audiard, a prominent figure on the French cultural scene, for which we don't have a good portrait, except one with a dubious license). Either they are famous people for which we already have many free images, or they are not so known people, and there aren't enough examples for an AI to create something resembling. Yann (talk) 02:59, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @Donald Trung: The software is not all. One also needs to submit a coherent prompt, and then to choose the best images, and then reiterate the process until the desired result. Yann (talk) 19:14, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
What are our guidelines on user-made art, such as depicting happiness, or obesity, or various celebrities? Fan art seems to be allowed, but otherwise I assume they are mostly deemed to be out of scope. Would they be seen as in scope if done well enough? I haven't seen such discussions, other than DRs on low-quality stuff. –LPfi (talk) 19:30, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@LPfi: , We do no have guidelines yet. Commons:AI generated media is a good start but it mostly concentrates on unacceptable cases. Category:AI generated images is full of interesting experiments which might only be usefull at demonstrating various AI engines, otherwise they are likely out of scope. I am searching for use cases where AI generated images would make positive impact. I assume that good quality user generated depictions of happiness, obesity, or various celebrities would be as welcome as user created photographs, provided that images are not clearly derivative of known copyrighted photographs, are good quality. We might need to create some additional guidelines or policies. For example, Commons:Photographs of identifiable people might need to be updated to cover issues with AI generated images. I am not sure where those future discussions will end up but I assume that we should have policy against AI depictions of identifiable people which would would be embarrassing to those people or which are depict some broadly defined falsehood or misinformation. At the same time images in the gallery at the top seem OK to me. --Jarekt (talk) 20:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Commons Gazette 2023-06[edit]

Staff changes[edit]

In May 2023, 1 sysop was elected; 1 checkuser was removed. Currently, there are 184 sysops and 4 checkusers.

Election:

Removal:

Edited by RZuo (talk).

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing! --RZuo (talk) 09:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RZuo, thank you for writing the Commons Gazette, while I don't really engage with it, I do read it, so I'd like you to let you know that it is very much appreciated. Keep up the good work. Face-smile.svg -- — Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:48, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RZuo I would suggest adding 2 FOP-related things for the Gazette: that FOP now exists in Timor-Leste/East Timor since the effectivity of their first copyright law in late May 2023, and Ukraine finally introduces freedom of panorama but with a non-profit condition unsuitable for Commons. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:27, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RZuo: you never responded to my comment about the usage of staff so I changed it in this version. You reverted me without any explanation. Can you please explain yourself? Multichill (talk) 18:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Notification of DMCA takedown demand — Kempes en Valencia[edit]

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the Wikimedia Foundation office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.

The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#Kempes en Valencia. Thank you! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 17:34, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flickr Foundation adopts Flickr2Commons[edit]

I've just received an email newsletter from the Flickr Foundation (aka Flickr.org; the non-profit arm of Flickr.com), which includes the paragraph (emboldening and links in original)):

We've partnered with the Wikimedia Foundation to adopt a tool called Flickr2Commons. We want to look after it and extend its features with the long term in mind. Keep your eyes open for "Flickypedia", which we plan to re-release towards the end of the year.

Does anyone know more about this "adoption", or what Flickypedia is? Or why this community was apparently not informed directly? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

is f2c the first tool adopted by an established organisation?
sounds like a positive development. flickr foundation seems way better than the lame WMF.--RZuo (talk) 19:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SyntaxError: invalid assignment left-hand side[edit]

I get the red warning box on ever page load with the message "SyntaxError: invalid assignment left-hand side". Did I broke something through my userscript, is there a gadget broken or is there a general MediaWiki bug and everyone gets this error? --GPSLeo (talk) 19:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I do not get such an error. You can try disabling scripts in your common.js file. Ruslik (talk) 19:54, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Retrieved from "https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Village_pump&oldid=769564197"