User talk:Ellin Beltz

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Greetings! Please poke around and leave me a message!

I'm one of the admins and bureaucrats on Wikimedia Commons.
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Please do not be offended if your images were nominated for deletion or deleted.
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and undelete images which have already been removed.


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Also, have some tea (if you like it) and I hope you feel better soon! Storkk (talk) 17:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Thankies Storkk! Love tea! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:13, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving

Picture deletion: "Georgios Averof" in dazzle paint, WW2 Bombay Harbor

Hello, Ellin.

I am contacting you regarding your recent decision to side with fellow deletion-administrator, Johan Bos, and remove the above picture from the Wikipedia page, "Greek Cruiser Georgios Averof" and 10 other related sites, including the quasi-official Wikipedia page of the "Hellenic Navy".

You are repeating Johan's position that it can only be assumed that this image is a UK Royal Navy photo (1942) which is then subject to the provisions of expired UK statutory Crown Copyright. At what point does an assumption become reality? Especially as the statutory provisions of Crown Copyright and UK Royal Navy wartime mandates indicate that no one but HM's government might legally make a copyright claim to this image.

In 2013, the Hellenic Navy acknowledged the UK public domain status of this photo and colorized it for the sale of paper prints, at-or-from the Georgios Averof museum gift-and-book shop. As you probably know, the Hellenic Navy proudly preserves the Averof as a commissioned vessel in their fleet and a prized museum ship. Their photos carry the imprint -- "Colorized by the Hellenic Navy". While they reserved the right to the duplication of these colorized prints for sale, the Hellenic Navy allows for their media to be used to promote the history and heritage of the ship. A footnote regarding fair use of all images found on official Hellenic Navy websites is given at the bottom of Wikipedia's "Hellenic Navy" page. In any event, they make no copyright claim to the underlying B&W image, which they acknowledge as UK Public Domain per the UK Royal Navy's rights of origin.

The Averof was serving under the command of the UK Royal Navy and subject to all UK Crown Copyright and wartime photographic provisions at the time the picture was taken. There are four known images of the Averof in dazzle paint, apparently taken at the same location on two dates during WW2. Three of these are acknowledged UK Public Domain images that are available from the Hellenic Navy and the Hellenic Maritime Museum. The fourth is in the collection of the Australian War Memorial. It is catalogued as photo 305863 (look it up on their website) and is listed as Public Domain due to expired UK Crown-Copyright.

The AWM is an official UK Commonwealth agency. If they acknowledge that their dazzle-paint image carries the status of expired Crown Copyright, then I strongly feel that Wikipedia should acknowledge the deleted image of the Averof as holding the same. Such official recognitions of UK Crown Copyright Public Domain status by Greek and Commonwealth agencies, regarding this vessel's known dazzle paint photos, should be the determining factor acknowledged in your decision, not Johan Bos' determination not be overruled.

Thank you. Bbaldwin7 Bbaldwin7 (talk) 23:19, 11 December 2017 (UTC)