Template talk:Cat see also

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Note: This template is also found on English Wikipedia: en:Template:Cat see also.

Unify a format of this template with {{see also}}[edit]

Please could somebody unify a format of output of this template with {{see also}}? This template is less distinctive, compared to {{see also}}. --ŠJů (talk) 11:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Symbol support vote.svg Support. These temlates should be unified! --Kaganer (talk) 07:15, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done. Yarl 17:21, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, but no space before "{{and}}"... --Kaganer (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Fixed. Yarl 19:15, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Exellent! Thanks! --Kaganer (talk) 13:43, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Please make a new template {{cat see also banner}} or {{cat see also 2}} if you want to have another design. But simply changing a heavily used template completely in its behaviour is not really nice. --Saibo (Δ) 23:12, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
OK, but I don't see absolutely any reason for making next template with the same purpose. Well, it's heavily used template now, because I changed lots of pages from {{see also}} to {{cat see also}} and I'm really wondering why people were using {{see also}}... Maybe because {{cat see also}} looked creepy and definitely not user-friendly compared to {{see also}}? Yarl 11:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, it is not the same purpose - for example this can be included in/after a text paragraph without creating a big fat banner (see my userpage, where the banner was completely misplaced). It is just another style. On gallery pages or category pages the banner could be more useful since it is more eye-catching (maybe even a bit too much - but this is a matter of taste). So another template is justified. Sorry for didn't notice this change or the discussion earlier.
Btw: If we had a new template which has a clear usage scope and instructions (e.g. something like this: "Use on category pages on top, on a separate line not within text since the visual/logical appearance of this template is not permanent. This template is used to have a unified look on category pages.") the appearance could be changed to restyle all category pages which use it. But this template here didn't have such a scope. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 12:06, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Vast majority of usage is the same as {{see also}}, so I think it's better to add |type=slim/noborder/sth else for other usages that require just simple text, without fancy border. Documentation can be, of course, fixed. Yarl 12:53, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, if someone volunteers to find all usages (not that easy since some (not really realistic here, I guess) could be - due to template programming - not active currently) which rely on the old no banner version, we can change the default here. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 13:42, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Also, there is the problem I discussed farther down concerning the width. Browser compatibility is a problem. I have been working on tables a lot lately, and tables have many browser compatibility problems. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:50, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
As far as I know, the latest version (based on divs) worked fine on latest versions of Firefox, Chrome and IE. Yarl 18:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
Great job! And thanks for the banner=no option. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:40, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Missing space[edit]

A space character between LABEL and the word "category" seems to be missing. --ŠJů (talk) 12:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Should be fixed--DieBuche (talk) 13:03, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
That was my fault, too over-eager to remove execss whitespace. -84user (talk) 19:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Removed width:100%[edit]

width:100%;

I removed it. This new addition breaks the formatting of some pages. For example; Category:Poverty.

If you want to create a multi-category template with width:100% please create a different template.

To see the problem caused by width:100% try previewing Category:Poverty. Try adding {{See also}}

in place of

System-search.svgSee also categories: Wealth, Economic inequality and Social inequality

You will see that the see-also template with width:100% messes up the formatting.

Somehow the translation table has a 100% width option, but it wraps around other stuff without problems. See: Category:Poverty. It uses Template:Translation table in addition to Template:Cat see also. Maybe you can figure out how Template:Translation table is doing it. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:13, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Check it out now, as far as I see it's ok. Yarl 18:48, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your efforts, but it is not working in Internet Explorer. It is working in Firefox. See Category:Architecture. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:29, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
It is working now. Thanks! The banner=no option is very helpful too. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Could we set this to "banner=no" for category namespace? The new design just covers most of the generally short category description page and makes the reminder more difficult to read. --  Docu  at 13:09, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I am not sure what you mean. Could you link to an example category page? --Timeshifter (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
It would be for any category. --  Docu  at 05:20, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
You mean the blue bar by itself? And not how it interacts with right-aligned stuff? What reminder are you talking about? A link to a category page would help me and others see what you are talking about: "makes the reminder more difficult to read". --Timeshifter (talk) 06:17, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Have a look at Category:Poverty or Category:Media with locations.
The "see also" is larger than the category description itself. --  Docu  at 06:47, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I see now what you are talking about. It doesn't bother me though. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:49, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
An option "banner=yes" might work better for that namespace. --  Docu  at 02:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

bold in no banner ver[edit]

Compare:

I have a German UI - therefore only saw the latter one - until now (confused by It has been bold since June 2010.). Was it only bold for some languages?! Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 22:05, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Look at the revision history of the template, and go back to June 19, 2010 where it says "format". That is when it was changed to bold text for "See also categories". --Timeshifter (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, see it - only for English. I guess subsequently other languages were bolded, too. Not sure if I like this bold text - I was used to the non bold text (German interface). ;) Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 21:58, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Category:Economics is an example of where it looks better bold as See also categories if the no-banner setting is used. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Extra space[edit]

{{see also cats|banner=no|Poverty|Economics}}

See also categories: Poverty and Economics. .

It looks like there is an extra space. Can someone fix that? --Timeshifter (talk) 07:10, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Here is another example:

--Timeshifter (talk) 06:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is a space which has to be removed. This is particularly inesthetic. Please remove it. Thanks. Here is the problem : in French, {{int:Seealso}} produces a space after the words “Voir aussi”. It should not. I think the page MediaWiki:Seealso/fr needs to be corrected. I was going to correct that, but it's locked.
--Nnemo (talk) 12:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Inertia. --Nnemo (talk) 11:38, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

First category is italicized[edit]

The first category is italicized in the banner version. See: Category:Economic statistics

Here is an example:

Can the first category not be italicized?

Also, can a comma be added between the last two categories? Otherwise, it can look like one category instead of two to someone looking at it quickly. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:02, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

After a couple edits I was able to remove the italics from the first category name in the banner version. See this version. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Summary of use[edit]

This template supercedes (for people in the know) Template:See also since it allows multiple entries. For example; using the redirect I prefer ("see also cat"):
{{see also cat|Jail|Parole|Probation|Chained people|Correctional population statistics|Incarceration rates‎|Criminal justice statistics}}
It produces:
If you use less entries:
{{see also cat|Jail|Parole|Probation|Chained people}}
It produces this:
System-search.svgSee also categories: Jail, Parole, Probation and Chained people
The width is no longer a problem because the box wraps around anything floated on the right side of a page. Also, it has an option to turn off the box (banner=no), and only show text:
{{see also cat|banner=no|Jail|Parole|Probation|Chained people}}
It produces this:
See also categories: Jail, Parole, Probation and Chained people.
Template:See also should eventually be redirected to Template:Cat see also.
Or just change it from Template:See also to Template:See also cat by adding "cat" to it whenever you see it. All these below redirect to Template:Cat see also:
{{see also cat}}
{{see also cats}}
{{see also categories}} --Timeshifter (talk) 18:45, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

LABEL not working. Fixed[edit]

Hello,

I've tried to use the LABEL option, but it doesn't seem to work. If I understand correctly, {{cat see also|Example|LABEL="For more details, see"}} should give the text "For more details, see Category:Example", but it doesn't:

System-search.svg"For more details, see": Example

. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong? Torsch (talk) 18:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

You might want to ask at User talk:Yarl. He has done some editing on this template, and he is currently active on the Commons. He seems to know what he is talking about. I don't understand complex template coding. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Should be ✓ Done. Yarl 21:25, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
{{cat see also|Example}}
System-search.svgSee also category: Example
{{cat see also|Example|LABEL="For more details, see"}}
System-search.svg"For more details, see": Example
Great! Thanks, Yarl. It looks like quotes are unnecessary. --Timeshifter (talk) 14:01, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Also thanks by me.Torsch (talk) 15:08, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Quotation mark[edit]

Hello, this template is very useful to me. Unfortunately with the German interface I get a single quotation mark right after the label:

Siehe auch die Kategorien'

I guess that’s an error. Greetings -- Mapmarks (talk) 13:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Latest changes do not really work[edit]

template with multiple targets now want to use a template:comma, see Category:Racism. Please fix it ASAP. --Denniss (talk) 23:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Inertia[edit]

After more than 2 years, this problem is still present. This shows what locking achieves. --Nnemo (talk) 11:41, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Shorthand or redirects[edit]

It was suggested I move this here. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:21, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

How do I add more than one shorthand or redirect? I will ask also at Template talk:TemplateBox.

These all redirect to Template:Cat see also. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:12, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Why would you (or whoever asked that question) want to? It's not necessary to know for new users, and experienced users likely now about Special:WhatLinksHere.    FDMS  4    21:00, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
It is not necessary, it is useful. Wikimedia Commons itself is not necessary. As for experienced users, I am one, and I learn helpful shortcuts when they are written in the help page, or doc, never by “what links here”. --Nnemo (talk) 22:49, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
FDMS, you wrote: "It's not necessary to know for new users". I disagree. Anything that helps new users in using this template is a good thing. And shortcuts help new (and experienced) users in remembering something that will work right away without having to look up the original name of a template. It is hard to look up a template name if you can't remember it. :) And you can't use Special:WhatLinksHere if you can't find the template, or remember the name of the template.
Even if you have the template bookmarked, you may not want to spend time trying to find it in your bookmarks. Especially if you have tens of thousands of bookmarks as I do. Or if you can't remember the correct name of the template.
Is it now possible to add more shortcuts to the documentation page?: Template:Cat see also/doc. I haven't checked the underlying template, Template:TemplateBox, in a long time. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:36, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Erm … why not just use {{cat see also}}, or the shortcut {{catseealso}}? Your alternative names are not shortcuts, because they are actually longer and therefore more diffult to type, but unnecessary alternatives. Why, just why would you use {{see also categories}} instead of {{catseealso}}? You can access Special:WhatLinksHere via What links here in the Tools section of your sidebar (on the Template: page).    FDMS  4    02:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Why would someone remember {{catseealso}} if they can't remember {{Cat see also}}? Both redirects and shorthand have a long history in template usage here on the Commons. I have over 19,000 edits on the Commons. Template:TemplateBox has "shorthand" to mean both redirects and shorthand. Probably because the original author of the template only wanted to use one word for the field name. So you are probably confused by the field name in the template.
You don't seem to be making an effort to understand other points of view in this thread. This will only cause you endless problems on the Commons and Wikipedia. And you will irritate many other editors. I know where Special:WhatLinksHere is in the sidebar. Are you that clueless that you didn't understand what I and Nnemo wrote in our comments. Please read them again.
There was a different documentation template before Template:TemplateBox. And it had room for more than one redirect. --Timeshifter (talk) 18:15, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
I am purposefully not replying to every point (the in this discussion rather irrelevant fact that you have 19.000 edits, your warning of "endless problems", …), but am I right saying that the essential point you are trying to make is that people tend to forget template names? Do you believe there cannot be enough redirects because they might help people for example misspelling them or just trying some out (I'm honestly not kidding, but seriously asking myself that question)? If so, I was probably indeed pretty clueless.    FDMS  4    22:14, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Rather than wikilawyer when you are wrong, it is better to just admit when you are wrong. I make plenty of mistakes. Feel free to create more redirects. It is only text. Redirect pages take up very few kilobytes on the servers.
Also, these redirects have been in use for years. It is not up to you to change this longstanding policy of using redirects. The problem is with the newer documentation template. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:23, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

(unindent). I figured out how to add more than one shorthand redirect to Template:TemplateBox. See example templates, and their documentation pages that use {{TemplateBox}}:

--Timeshifter (talk) 07:21, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Layout[edit]

Instead of looking like this: "See also category: Example" it should be "See also Category:Example" to reflect the actual page name. It gives consistency which is a good thing. Alan Liefting (talk) 00:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)