Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Anti Poland.png

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Image:Anti_Poland.png

Outside project scope. Encourages hatred toward Poland. -Nard the Bard 14:58, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Really? See: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti_logos (several different examples:

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and other. Example - use (in page of user):

This user official fights with Polish: POV, nationalism, propaganda and compulsory polonization in projects of Wikimedia Foundation.

[1] Users have right to this.

 Delete art. 137. § 1 KK - znieważenie flagi Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej (flag profanation of Rzeczpospolita Polska - art. 137. § 1 penal code). Poznaniak (talk) 16:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Lie! Znieważenie to co innego. Lepiej poznaj prawo i to co jest znieważeniem, później się wypowiadaj. PS: I ask about opinions not-Poles. Voting/Statement from Poles in this subject is nonsense. LUCPOL (talk) 16:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Tak się składa, że studiuję prawo. Swoim czynem wypełniłeś ustawowe znamiona czynu zabronionego określonego w art. 137. § 1 (Dz. U. z 1997 r. Nr 88 poz. 553 z późn. zm.) i proszę nie zarzucaj mi kłamstwa. Poznaniak (talk) 18:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Tak więc zacytuj tu ten artykuł który mówi że komputerowe przekreślenie flagi polskiej jest jej profanacją i jest czynem zabronionym. Przepraszam, że z góry oskarżyłem cię o kłamstwo ale twoją pierwszą wypowiedź uznałem za absurd podobny do tego jak oskarżenie kogoś za próbę morderstwa za to że krzywo na kogoś popatrzył. Pomiędzy profanacją flagi czyli jej opluciem/"skałowieniem" (lub podobnymi), spaleniem, zdeptaniem a zwykłym oficjalnym przekreśleniem w formie elektronicznej jest duża różnica. Przekreślenie czegokolwiek, w tym flag, nazw np. Polska, tekstów, znaków itd itd nie jest żadną profanacją niczego. Jako student prawa powinieneś to wiedzieć. Uznaję, że po prostu byłeś nieobecny na zajęciach kiedy braliście ten temat ;) Pozdrawiam. LUCPOL (talk) 21:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Proszę bardzo: "Art. 137. § 1. Kto publicznie znieważa, niszczy, uszkadza lub usuwa godło, sztandar, chorągiew, banderę, flagę lub inny znak państwowy, podlega grzywnie, karze ograniczenia wolności albo pozbawienia wolności do roku." Przekreślenie flagi może jest społecznie szkodliwe w mniejszym stopniu niż np. jej publiczne spalenie jednakże wypełnia znamiona ww. czynu zabronionego pod groźbą kary. Co do przekreślenia nazwy "Polska" to zależy od interpretacji ale można by uznać to za wypełnienie znamion czynu zabronionego opisanego w art. 133 KK (na pewno byłoby tak w czasach II RP gdy przyjmowano bardzo szeroką definicję znieważenia Rzeczypospolitej). P.S. Nie opuszczam żadnych zajęć. Poznaniak (talk) 11:50, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Bez obrazy, ale zdecydowanie za bardzo nadinterpretowałeś artykuł 137. § 1 i 133 KK. Modlę się tylko, aby po studiach bardziej realnie zacząłeś spostrzegać świat. Powinieneś zrozumieć jedno (pewnie już to wiesz, ale napiszę): w dzisiejszych czasach wszystko można podpiąć pod złamanie jakiegoś artykułu prawnego lub konstytucyjnego, wszystko: od pokazania języka innej osobie (...) po nieprzyjęcie kobiety do szpitala jako dawcę spermy - na wszystko można naciągnąć jakiś paragraf. Dobra, skończmy już tę rozmowę. LUCPOL (talk) 12:27, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

•  Keep LUCPOL (talk) 16:46, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

What do you support? The deletion or the image? J.smith (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)Thanks for the clarification. --J.smith (talk) 18:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

• {{Vk}} - Commons has no NPOV requirement. See Commons:Project scope/Neutral point of view. J.smith (talk) 17:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I've been thinking about this a bit and I'm having a hard time seeing how this (and about 25% of the images in the anti-cat) are within our scope. What value do they bring to the project? Is there any wiki that would have a use for this image and in what context? J.smith (talk) 08:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Probably, we to should delete whole category. 100% images in this category is POV. LUCPOL (talk) 09:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Delete according to polish law this is profanation of Flag of Republic of Poland. --JDavid (talk) 18:59, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
  •  Comment I didn't realize Poland had laws regarding their flag. It might still be ok for us to host the images here. We host some images illegal in Germany and the German Wikipedia does not use the images. Can you point me to an English translation of the law so I can study it further? Even if it's in polish, a computer translation might be enough. J.smith (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
  •  Comment Poles - how always. How many yet will come Poles to vote here? I ask for neutral users (not from Poland). Opinion from Poland is already well-known. LUCPOL (talk) 21:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
    • If I was polish I would take offense to your comment. I recommend retracting it immediately. J.smith (talk) 23:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Delete I am not sure if X-ing of national flag can be named its profanation. For me profanation of flag could be burning, trampling, tearing etc. Crossing it is only not polite and rather difficult to accept (as POV), but might be not penalized. But from the other side, in the Category:Anti_logos we don't have any national flag: American, German, British, Iranian, Israeli...(I've uploaded them just for test) Would be it possible, Poland is most hateful coutry of the world? Julo (talk) 00:06, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Delete Hateful stuff should be deleted from Commons. - Darwinek (talk) 09:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
  •  Comment This not "Hateful". LUCPOL (talk) 10:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Keep Far from being hateful, the flag is being used on the Wikipedia to express opposition to Polish nationalism rather than Poles or Poland. The Commons is not censored. --Simonxag (talk) 10:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

  Well, ok. If you accept this kind of expressing somebody's opposition, what will you do with this kind of expression Image:Schlesien crossed.png? Julo (talk) 18:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

• Delete all--Orlovic (talk) 19:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Keep Oh dammit, another public over-reaction of fluffy sensitiveness. This is not racist in itself! "Encourages hatred" is not a reason, it's a joke. Seriously - if that would be an argument, you'd have to censor 95% of the world's press. Guys, please think about that for more than five seconds, then loads of deletion debates would be spare. You MAY consider necessity, but you MUST NOT consider feelings. This is an encyclopedia, not a forum. For this request reason: KEEP. • Lirion (Λιριων, Лирион, ليريون) ^wtf? • 00:37, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't it understand: you vote to "keep" here, and in Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Israel flag crossed.png - to delete. Be more consequent. Or should I draw more national flags crossed? Julo (talk) 10:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
•  Keep I do not find this image offending. Beau (talk) 15:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
• Keep all, they are offensive but censorship is more offensive. Commons isn't censored for good reason! Anti-logos are absolutely within scope. If there are issues with how the images are used (which I don't think there is, but it's hypothetically possible) then we can discuss that separately - the solution won't involve deleting the images.  — Mike.lifeguard | ^@en.wb 20:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Proposal

I will agree on removal this image but together with other anti-countries/states etc images:

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LUCPOL (talk) 09:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

• Delete all --Orlovic (talk) 18:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
• I'm fine with deleting these images as well, but I think we should have a wider discussion as this is basically a new application of COM:SCOPE. Maybe we should move this to the village pump? J.smith (talk) 18:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Image:Anti-Communist.png is an anti-ideology symbol, and is not against any one particular nation. AnonMoos (talk) 20:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

No, this Image:Anti-Communist.png is really crossed flag of USRR. Anti-ideology symbol this is: Image:Anti-Socialist-Symbol.svg and Image:Nno.jpg. LUCPOL (talk) 21:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

No it is not the flag of the USSR crossed. The flag of the USSR had a small hammer and sickle in the upper left, accompanied by a hollow yellow star, while this image obviously has the emblem throughout the flag, and no star. AnonMoos (talk) 21:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

...and USSR does not exist any more, i.e. this symbol is not manipulation of official state flag Julo (talk) 10:50, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

•  Keep - potential usage is not a reason to delete them. It seems to me they, mostly, have some sort of value within scope. -mattbuck (Talk) 03:09, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

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Kept. Anonymous101 ^talk 13:31, 18 October 2008 (UTC)