Commons:Deletion requests/File:Idioma ruso.PNG
File:Idioma ruso.PNG[edit]
The map make a bogus claim regarding eastern Poland when it marks the area in 'light blue' signifying that in the region there is a meaningful Russian speaking minority, in reality based on Wikipedia's 'Russian minority in Poland' and 'Rosjanie w Polsce' articles there is only 13,000 members of the Russian minority in Poland, and that only one Gminie (Municipality), Gmina Augustów has a marginally recognizable amount of Russian speakers at just over 0.5% of the total population there, so to mark the entire eastern Poland in 'light blue' is a gross exaggeration, with propaganda overtones. Also, no sources are listed to back up any of the claims shown on the map. --E-960 (talk) 22:30, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Keep: File widely in use. A DR is not the best place to discusse the factual accuracy. --Amitie 10g (talk) 22:49, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Delete: Map shows false nationalist propaganda claims—it's a bit more than an issue of factual accuracy, it should be deleted. --E-960 (talk) 23:05, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Comment Valid source is required. At present there is no source of the basemap or the information contained on the image. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:05, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
Kept: widely in use. The file has many contributors, and several versions, so if some information has no backup from sources, you're invited to improve the map. Ruthven (msg) 15:07, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
File:Idioma ruso.PNG[edit]
File is not realistically useful for an educational purpose ("providing knowledge; instructional or informative") COM:EDUSE, because it is not based on reliable sources, and has a demonstrable tendency to mislead, as several users have pointed out, to the point that it may constitute a hoax (which per Commons:Verifiability is a legitimate reason for filing a deletion request). The previous 2017 deletion request only took in account whether the file was 'widely in use', not whether its contents were realistically educational in "providing knowledge; [being] instructional or informative". To start with, the map has no date, but it must be presumed to present a post-1991 situation due to the international borders shown (this is a problem I'll get back to later on). The lack of a definition of "minority", which could theoretically lead to the whole world being coloured light blue wherever Russian was not the majority, was already pointed out as a problem on the talk page in 2012. The 2017 deletion request revealed that apparently 0.5% counted as enough of a "minority" to colour an area in eastern Poland light blue. Such a vague and extremely broad criterion seriously undermines the realistic educational value of any map. The 2017 DR closed with the advice to provide 'sources to back up information', but each of the 5 sources that were added since failed verification when I checked them today:
- 2 only showed Slavic language maps in general, not Russian specifically;
- 2 were outdated about the pre-1918 situation in the Russian Empire, and the 1979 Soviet Union census, even though the map uses post-1991 borders
- and finally, one is a self-published blog that only shows maps of non-Russian language areas in Russia, not where Russian is spoken either by the majority or a 'minority', let alone outside Russia.
Moreover, even if we can argue about what is or is not a 'minority' in e.g. eastern Poland, the fact that the map claims that Russian is the majority language in several Ukrainian oblasts such as Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Odesa, which is demonstrably false (e.g. by File:Ukraine census 2001 Russian.svg), supports the view that this map is (perhaps intentionally, certainly factually) misleading.
Combined, this map and these sources constitute a hoax. The map cannot possibly show what the 5 sources are saying about the post-1991 situation of Russian-language majorities and minorities in the highlighted countries. The attempts to support the data visualised in the map over the past five years since the previous DR have failed, and only made the situation worse, as we now have even more reason to doubt that anything in the map is based on reliable sources, and reason to suspect that data in this map have just been made up with either the intention or clear effect of misleading. That cannot be a realistically educational purpose. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:49, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
- It's clearly not a hoax, nor nationalistic. It may be sloppy, or based on poor sources, or an OR SYNTH of various sources, perhaps ethnic rather than linguistic, but for all the claims above of it pushing Russian in e.g. Ukraine (where it's not that far off), you could make a counter claim that it's attacking Russian for where it does not display it as the majority language in Russia itself, or in Kazakhstan, or the Japanese-claimed Kurils, etc.
- In its original form, this map showed Russian as a minority language in all of the USSR (which is no longer accurate, but not an unreasonable assumption), plus Mongolia, Israel, Svarlbard, and in border areas of Finland, Poland and Romania. The last is apparently for the Lipovans. It's not very precise, but there's no basis for claiming it's a hoax, and it's one of only two maps we have that show the extent of Russian within Russia.
- I don't know who added the sources, but they were not provided with the initial upload.
- Anyway, if you object to its precision or accuracy, use a different map! There are several. Quibbles about accuracy or being dated are not reason to delete a file from Commons. Most of the maps on Commons are inaccurate; the solution IMO is to correct them or to upload better maps. Kwamikagami (talk) 04:37, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
- I would like to create a new distribution map based on Ethnolog, but it would be a hell of a lot of work unless I were fairly sloppy myself. I doubt I'll ever get to it. Kwamikagami (talk) 05:52, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
Kept: in use. --Krd 07:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
