Commons:Deletion requests/File:Etat Russo-Lithuanien aux XIV-XV siecles.jpg
This file should be deleted because this map showns false boundaries, namely, the border of the Teutonic Order is shown in this map as pretty much identical to the East Prussian region (which it wasn't) and also forgets the Livonian Order. Finally, the map has a historically inaccurate label, namely "Russo-Lithuanian State". No serious scholars refer to the Lithuanian state in such a manner. Cukrakalnis (talk) 20:02, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Keep It is not the task of the project to reflect "only correct documents". --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 21:15, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
Kept: no valid reason for deletion. --Wdwd (talk) 11:02, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
This obviously is a copyrighted work without valid free license. Serge Obolensky was born in 1890 and died in 1978. While Pierre Bregy was born in 1898 (source of his birth year), so he is even younger. It is not supported by any source that 70 years had already passed since Pierre Bregy's death. Uploader of this file clearly picked a random license template without providing any evidence that it is valid for this file. Anyway, I think it is safe to assume that both Serge Obolensky and Pierre Bregy have equal copyrights to this file/book. Since one of the authors (Serge Obolensky) of this file/book died only 43 years ago, the {{PD-old}} license tag will be valid for this file only after 27 years (so in 2048). -- Pofka (talk) 18:25, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
Kept: no valid reason for deletion. --Yann (talk) 21:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
If the author is known, we need to know when he died. Yann (talk) 18:10, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Yann Considering the co-author who was born eight years before Pierre Brégy still lived to 1978, it is safe to assume that he lived to a similar time. I have found a person named Pierre, who was born in Brégy exactly in 1898 and who died in 1979, and considering that his birth place was just below 600 people, it is a pretty certain guess, that this is indeed the person concerned. So, 70 years have definitely NOT passed since the death date of whichever author.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- That's a different person. Brégy here is the name of a town, not a family name. BTW where did you find the authors' birthdate? Yann (talk) 19:15, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Yann I found the birthdate of Pierre Brégy here and Serge Obolensky here. The problem with Pierre Brégy is that him being an obscure author means that not a lot is known about him. My rationale for picking this as a possible person, is because there is a possibility that Pierre Brégy was an alias (1st name and birthdate is the same, but the 2nd name he changed into his birthplace village). Unfortunately, this is speculation, but it is the best available suggestion there is on the material available online.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's useful. There is another Serge Obolensky with different dates, but in all cases, these make this file under a copyright. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your time and patience, Best --Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Here is a database of all people who died in France after 1970, based on birth and death municipality records. There is no match for Serge Obolensky born in 1890 or 1901, and for Pierre Brégy born in 1898. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- The Serge Obolensky born in 1890 in Russia and died in USA in 1978, so him not being registered in France makes sense.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:44, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Also, Pierre Brégy, who would have been born in 1898, doesn't even appear. Him not being in official records, but having written a book raises some questions.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- There is probably a confusion between 2 people called Serge Obolensky: LoC and VIAF give the dates 1901-1992 for the author of language courses. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- There is such a possibility, but regardless, whichever death date is the correct one for the co-author of this book, this file is in copyrighted 'territory'.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:56, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Cukrakalnis: Pierre Brégy is the pseudonym of Kyriak Stameroff, who died on February 18th, 1944, according to this newspaper. Yann (talk) 22:14, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Wow, what a find! I have no clue how you even came about that. My speculation is definitely brushed aside considering the findings you presented, although I was right about this being an alias. It definitely mentions all of the books that are ascribed to this person, so it is without a doubt him. But even then, considering there were two authors of the book, and one of them died in the late 1970s or 1990s, doesn't this still raise issues?--Cukrakalnis (talk) 22:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- In a book about history, you cannot assume that the author of the book is the author of the maps ; even less that the authors of the books are both the authors of the maps...
- the author of the map could be (and probably is) a third person, about whom we have no information at all, except, perhaps, the cyrillic initials that can be read in the bottom right "ΔΛ" (DL)... 4 of the 5 maps in this book have this same signature...
- however, I agree that it cannot reasoneably be assumed that a page of a book published in 1939 is in the Public Domain according to the 70 years post death rule, unless it is provable that the author died during war, or shortly after... --Hsarrazin (talk) 07:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
- Keep The initials can also be read as cyrillic "АЛ" (AL), but they do not fit the two known authors of the book anyway. Consequently, the maps signed with these initials can be considered as works of an unknown author, passed into the public domain 70 years after publication.--Yellow Horror (talk) 08:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Wow, what a find! I have no clue how you even came about that. My speculation is definitely brushed aside considering the findings you presented, although I was right about this being an alias. It definitely mentions all of the books that are ascribed to this person, so it is without a doubt him. But even then, considering there were two authors of the book, and one of them died in the late 1970s or 1990s, doesn't this still raise issues?--Cukrakalnis (talk) 22:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Cukrakalnis: Pierre Brégy is the pseudonym of Kyriak Stameroff, who died on February 18th, 1944, according to this newspaper. Yann (talk) 22:14, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- There is such a possibility, but regardless, whichever death date is the correct one for the co-author of this book, this file is in copyrighted 'territory'.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:56, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- There is probably a confusion between 2 people called Serge Obolensky: LoC and VIAF give the dates 1901-1992 for the author of language courses. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Also, Pierre Brégy, who would have been born in 1898, doesn't even appear. Him not being in official records, but having written a book raises some questions.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- The Serge Obolensky born in 1890 in Russia and died in USA in 1978, so him not being registered in France makes sense.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:44, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Here is a database of all people who died in France after 1970, based on birth and death municipality records. There is no match for Serge Obolensky born in 1890 or 1901, and for Pierre Brégy born in 1898. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:41, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your time and patience, Best --Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:32, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's useful. There is another Serge Obolensky with different dates, but in all cases, these make this file under a copyright. Regards, Yann (talk) 19:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- @Yann I found the birthdate of Pierre Brégy here and Serge Obolensky here. The problem with Pierre Brégy is that him being an obscure author means that not a lot is known about him. My rationale for picking this as a possible person, is because there is a possibility that Pierre Brégy was an alias (1st name and birthdate is the same, but the 2nd name he changed into his birthplace village). Unfortunately, this is speculation, but it is the best available suggestion there is on the material available online.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 19:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- That's a different person. Brégy here is the name of a town, not a family name. BTW where did you find the authors' birthdate? Yann (talk) 19:15, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
Deleted: per nomination, discussion above and linked discussion on Wiksource. --Ellywa (talk) 21:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
