Commons:Village pump

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Welcome to the Village pump

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Water pump next to the church in the town center of Doel. Doel, Beveren, East Flanders, Belgium. [add]
Centralized discussion
See also: Village pump/Proposals • Archive

Template: View • Discuss • Edit • Watch


Software recognition of image content[edit]

Deep Visual-Semantic Alignments for Generating Image Descriptions ( an unfortunately vague title) describes software which an recognise and describe the content of images. If reliable, this would be a great boon for Wikimedia Commons, especially when we have a large donations of undocumented images. Andy Mabbett (talk) 21:19, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

@DrTrigon: DrTrigonBot attempted something similar. But at least I guess they will be very interested in this topic. -- Rillke(q?) 22:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, he continued where I left off at User:Multichill/Using OpenCV to categorize files. If better open software is available to assist us here, it might be fun to see if we can do a test with that. Multichill (talk) 10:49, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I've never seen DrTrigonBot do anything other than dump a butt-load of ugly and useless numbers onto image description pages, and add Category:Graphics, so probably a program wouldn't have to be too powerful to do better than that... AnonMoos (talk) 13:29, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

November 20[edit]

Bug when linking to sub-pages of categories[edit]

I may have discovered a bug, and would appreciate a sanity check, please, before I raise a ticket; as well as help with a work-around

On Category:Foo, if I create a link to a sub-page;


MediaWiki tries to add the page to the category Category:Foo/subpage

but if I use a colon:


then the link goes to the page /Foo.

Is this expected?

I wanted to make a template, for use on many pages, in various namespeaces, so I guess:

[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Foo]] is the answer - but how do I add a colon when required? Andy Mabbett (talk) 13:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I guess it kind of makes sense - ':' is supposed to denote main namespace (e.g when doing {{:foo}} syntax), in addition to the make category/file links normal, albeit its rather confusing in this case. Doing [[:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/Foo]] should work even in the Main namespace case I believe. Bawolff (talk) 03:47, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
That seems to work. Thank you.

November 21[edit]

Bill Cosby 77[edit]

Can this image from this source

be uploaded here to Wikimedia Commons with license {{PD-ineligible}} ?

Thank you for your time,

-- Cirt (talk) 04:04, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I hestitate, but I think no. It's not simple geometry, more complex gradients. -mattbuck (Talk) 13:20, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
It's hard to compare it against the Best Western standard, or against the Myst/D'ni alphabet standard... -- AnonMoos (talk) 13:33, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
AnonMoos what do you mean by that? -- Cirt (talk) 15:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
File:Best Western logo.svg and File:D'ni Letters Vs Numerals.png are images of designs which are verified uncopyrightable under United States law, but they don't have the same type of visual effects as the Cosby77 image. AnonMoos (talk) 22:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Ah okay I see. I guess I'll stick with the fair-use image on en.wikipedia, then, and not upload it here to Commons. -- Cirt (talk) 22:43, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Global OTRS members[edit]

Looks like meta's global OTRS-member userright is assigned to all OTRS agents who has access to permissions queue. (example: Special:CentralAuth/-revi and m:Special:Log/gblrights) Should we remove local rights here and rely on meta's list? — Revi 04:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

No. -- (talk) 06:13, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
OTRS-membership is not linked to any specific wiki (AFAIK) so I am surprised that we keep track of it as a local right is there any reason to keep track of it locally? --Jarekt (talk) 14:06, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
That could change in the future Jarekt. russavia (talk) 21:31, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Seems user rights are not matching for now - Commons' usergroup has autopatrol, while global one only has read. — Revi 04:35, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I see no problem, we can assign autopatroll permission progressively. Alan (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
My suggestion is to keep local OTRS group (only for bots), and switch to the global one for users. Can someone start a proposal, please? --Steinsplitter (talk) 16:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Commons:Village pump/Proposals#RfC: Removal of local OTRS-member user group --Krd 16:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Builder of ITX-Saemaeul trains[edit]

I created the category:ITX-Saemaeul and I would like to classify this traintype to a train building compagny. However I have find it dificult to find the information on internet. Could somebody help me? Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:32, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you ask at en:WT:TRAINS. -mattbuck (Talk) 13:21, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
@Smiley.toerist: It's Hyundai Rotem, according to this page (KOREAN). — Revi 13:26, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
And according to Wikidata (d:Q13707875), no enwiki article for ITX-Samaeul. — Revi 13:33, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks: I am confused with the statement: average speed of 150 kilometers per hour. What is the maximum speed? If more than 200km/u the train should be reclassified as High Speed and I suppose it would use parts off the High Speed line.Smiley.toerist (talk) 17:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I have to check some technical docs to check details (speed), but I am sure that ITX-Saemaeul does not use High Speed line - it is only reserved for KTX-I (french one) and/or KTX-Sancheon (aka KTX-II, Hyundai Rotem too.). Original Saemaeul used traditional line, and since ITX-Saemaeul is replacement of it, I am sure ITX-saemaeul uses non-High Speed line. — Revi 18:06, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I try to add the statement (Commons Category) in Wikidata but (ITX-Saemaeul) is refused as input? What did I do wrong?Smiley.toerist (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Global usage up to date for Wikidata[edit]

Hi everyone, some time ago image usage tracking was enabled on Wikidata. It works the same as using images on normal wiki pages. The table tracking this usage wasn't updated after enabling this feature so about 350.000 items on Wikidata were using images from Commons, but this usage didn't show up here. At the recent Amsterdam hackathon I started a bot to purge the links on these items. Bot is done and everything seems to be up to date now. See for example the usage at this image. Multichill (talk) 10:44, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Yay! Thanks Maarten :) Jean-Fred (talk) 11:52, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Great --Jarekt (talk) 13:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, and thanks for putting so much personal effort into the hackerthon hosted by WMNL. Though the focus was on Wikidata, there have been several excellent spin-offs that benefit those of us who mainly volunteer as Commons contributors. Smile fasdfdsfoiueire.svg -- (talk) 12:09, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Standardising template display[edit]

The three templates:

used on Category:Anglo-Belgian War Memorial (London) (and no doubt other, similar templates) all have different styles and widths. It would be good to standardise these. But how? Andy Mabbett (talk) 12:58, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that many of the templates used in the Category namespace are mostly the same templates as used in the file namespace, in different positions. For example we have:
Most category descriptions do not need many templates, others like people categories can be fully described by {{Creator}} template. One exception are categories related to places. Maybe we need a category infobox template to organize / combine various other templates that can be associated with them, like {{Object location}} and {{Authority control}} Institution template, Monument template and {{Wikidata}}. We could also create a flat maintenance category Category:Places by name analogous to Category:People by name. --Jarekt (talk) 13:45, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Fakery categories[edit]

I have added Category:Fake steam locomotives and a fake sailing ship to Category:Fakes. These objects function (go to sea, ride) but as they suposed to do. Are there any other examples?Smiley.toerist (talk) 21:20, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, there are also fake paddle steamers such as Category:Louisiana Star (ship, 1999). This is a boat with diesel engines and using propeller propulsion, the stern wheel is just for looks and doesn't serve a real purpose (see also de:Louisiana Star in the German Wikipedia). I would only classify "steamers" of this type as a fake; there are also non-steamers where the paddle wheels at least serve as the real means of propulsion, such as Category:Herrsching (ship, 2002) - in this case, two diesel engines (not a steam engine) drive the sidewheels. I wouldn't call that a "fake", though such ships/boats are often wrongly called "steamers". Gestumblindi (talk) 00:59, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

November 22[edit]

access to data on Wikidata is coming on Dec 2nd[edit]

Hey everyone :)

I've been asked to enable access to the data on Wikidata for Commons. I'm happy to make that happen. We'll enable access on December 2nd. What does this mean? You will be able to access data from an item on Wikidata like the date of birth of an artist or the name of a city in different languages. Where and how much you make use of that is up for you to decide. You will be able to access the data in two ways. The first one is the #property parser function. The second one is via Lua. There are two big caveats at this point. 1) You will only be able to access data for items that are connected via a sitelink to the page you want to show the data on. We're currently working on allowing accessing data from any item. This should be available around January/February. 2) You can not use this to store meta data (like the date a picture was taken or who took it) about individual files. This will in the future be stored on Commons itself as part of the structured data project.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I am looking forward to more integration between Commons and Wikidata and all the things this will make possible. It'd be great if you could help with updating and expanding Commons:Wikidata. The relevant page on Wikidata is d:Wikidata:Wikimedia Commons.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 12:32, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Great news. Thanks for all your and your team's work. --Jarekt (talk) 00:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Help with some pictures[edit]

Hi. Sorry about write in english. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post. I appolige if is not. I need help to add categories to the uploaded pictures of this user. If someone can recognize the places or translate descriptions (or both), I'll be very thankfull. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 12:36, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I use Google Translate to help identify places or subjects: you can just copy and paste the description and/or title. For instance, the Persian description in File:Photo0210 الودگی زرند.jpg roughly translates to "Pollution zarand", which may indicate one of several places called Zarand, Iran. I hope this helps! Animalparty (talk) 19:14, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Hi, I've tried to translate with Google, but the results were awfull. However, another user is already helping. Thanks a lot. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 21:30, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

empty day

November 24[edit]

How it is possible?[edit]

How come that some nonexistent categories are given for existing? It happens sometimes using HotCat, or when I do a search in the box on the left. For example: if I write "Category: Alinari" (HotCat gives me the V that the category exist, within the framework of the research it is given in bold), then when I save, it is given in red, that is non-existent. Why? It's annoying to have to run for cover every time. I would like to understand what is causing this "deception". Thank you very much. --DenghiùComm (talk) 08:32, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Good question. It does that because the server tells HotCat that such a category existed. At least the query HotCat makes returns the search string "Category:Alinari" as a matching page title, even though Category:Alinari clearly doesn't exist as a page. Perhaps some file once was categorized in that category, even though the category page didn't exist, and the MediaWiki software therefore "thinks" that such a category (still) existed. I don't know why the opensearch search suggestions return this category as a match. Maybe the search index is just lagging behind in updating? Lupo 11:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
FYI (and I don't know if this will be better, worse, or the same), UploadWizard uses something like this via a core JS function called mw.Api.prototype.getCategoriesByPrefix. As long as that function exists, you can use it, and it will fetch categories prefixed by whatever the user is currently typing - which is how UW's nasty HotCat library does things. But you may prefer a "better" solution...I know I do. --MarkTraceur (talk) 12:12, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Mark; I know, and AFAIK that code was even inspired by HotCat. The HotCat gadget does more, though. It uses a combination of the page index (the query you gave) and the opensearch (the query I gave above). That was done deliberately; when we used only the page index, people were complaining about not finding similarly named categories (collations; type in "Sidliste": opensearch will show you also suggestions starting with "Sídliště", while the page index comes up empty). With only opensearch, we would miss out on recently created categories (created since the last index update). Therefore, we combined the two. Old discussions about that can be found at MediaWiki talk:Gadget-HotCat.js/Archive01#Support of charactersets and diacritics. Lupo 12:42, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
P.S.: @MarkTraceur: when I wrote above "the MediaWiki software therefore 'thinks' that such a category (still) existed" I was thinking of bug report T28411 (bugzilla 26411, from 2010). Why that would make it appear as an opensearch result I don't know, but maybe the search back-end looks at that table, too? I do notice that API:Allcategories recommends "the list be filtered to those where the size is greater than zero or the category page exists". (The HotCat gadget does not use allcategories.) Lupo 14:53, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Painting exercise[edit]

Practicing mixing of paint

I uploaded this file for a wikibook on painting. I plan to make more. Any suggestions for categorizing such pictures? Thanks Elly (talk) 16:58, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Looks like fun! :-) -- Tuválkin 18:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed it is fun! Elly (talk) 21:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Elly. You can put the images into "Category:Painting techniques". If the images all relate to painting techniques from a particular country (let's say XYZ), you can create a new subcategory called "Category:Painting techniques in XYZ" (use "Category:Painting techniques in Spain" as an example). — SMUconlaw (talk) 18:37, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your help Smuconlaw, Elly (talk) 21:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
You're most welcome. — SMUconlaw (talk) 14:43, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

A treasure trove of photographs![edit]


Dear friends,

Mrs. Megan C. Robertson has published a great number of well researched photograps on het own website. They are all photographs of the various orders and medals of the world. Many of them are hard to come by! The photo's are all of good quality and have a uniform model and background I have asked het permission to release the rights on her photo's and she gave us permission to use them on Commons!

That is very kind of her. I have downloaded one of them, with the relevant email, on[1] Is it possible to make a licence called "from the collection of Megan C Robertson" to facilitate the use of her photo's on Wiki-Commons?

Faithfully yours,

Robert Prummel (talk) 17:00, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Robert. However, I think that the designs of medals from some countries may be copyrighted, especially if they are recent. You will need to try and check which medal designs are copyrighted and which are in the public domain. If you need help with this, leave messages at "Commons:Village pump/Copyright". — SMUconlaw (talk) 18:20, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Dear Robert, please don't paste emails on File pages, we have OTRS for that. The email leaves room for interpretation and someone might see it as {{Wikipediaonly}}. Could you please follow up with OTRS to get proper permission stored? Multichill (talk) 19:52, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
All right, I will put my next email from Mrs. Robinson on OTRS. I could not find it on the page. As far as the release in the public domain is concerned, I will contact Mrs. Robinson again for an unequivocal release. I thought that my question was clear enough though... But I understand that we have to be exact. Bulgarian medals are allways free of copyright, there is an appropriate tag available. Faithfully yours, Robert Prummel (talk) 22:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

WikiCheese crowdfunding - Let's photograph 'em all[edit]

Pictures of the test session are already on Commons.

As french, it was dreadful for us to see so few illustrations of cheese on Wikimedia Commons. This is about to change.

A group of french Wikimedians, lead by me, designed a project to photograph many cheeses, up to 200 for the moment.

This project is perticular as we aim to have it found through a french crowdfunding platform, KissKissBankBank (

Of course Wikimedia France could have funded it itself, but we wanted to use the project as a way to get the larger audience aware of their ability to contribute and to give a fun image of contributing.

The project in few words iss follow :

  • 10 cheeses per session
  • During the session the cheeses are photographed and their articles improved
  • During the sessions experimented wikimedian would train new editors
  • At every session every participant would enjoy eating good cheese too

Of course, the kickstarter from Evan-Amos has been a great source of inspiration. Pyb (talk) 20:57, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Mmmm, what a good idea! — SMUconlaw (talk) 14:45, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
+1, brilliant idea! Love the diagrams ;-) --El Grafo (talk) 15:07, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Please beware of commercial packaging. Cheese itself is more then enough, if packaging is not in public domain. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
An idea nearly this was existing in Germany: WikiLoveCheese ;) --Ralf Roleček 15:23, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
i'm happy to hear that. I've seen the discussion on de:. We would be happy to exchange tips. Pyb (talk) 19:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Charles de Gaulle allegedly said "How can anyone govern a nation that has 246 different kinds of cheese?" SFriendly.gif -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Group effort to clear out uncategorized media?[edit]

Hi all. I've been slowly whittling away at the backlog of Media needing categories, but got to thinking it would be a lot more effective to have some sort of group collective effort. The 46,000 image backlog in Category:Files from Wellcome Images (categorization needed), for instance, could be eliminated if only 230 people categorized 200 images each. The way it might work is: everyone gets supplied with a randomly assigned subset of 100 or 200 files, resources about how to properly and effectively categorize media (including usage of tools like Cat-a-lot and the creation of new categories as appropriate), and a reminder of how categorizing enhances the aims of Commons and users everywhere. Links to using Google Translate and/or embedded coordinates to identify subjects or places would also be helpful. Links to Project scope and Deletion policy could also aid in deleting out-of-scope images rather than retaining copyright violations or poor-quality images of little educational use. If participants want to categorize more than their allotment, great! There could even be a "Categorization drive", to encourage participation: maybe a special barnstar or userpage banner for every X number of images categorized (simply for community recognition): e.g. "This user categorized over 1,000 files in the 2014 CatDrive!". I haven't really thought out everything of this idea, and don't know much about the inner mechanics of Commons but just thought I'd initiate discussion. Animalparty (talk) 22:42, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

There are a lot of images in those categories with other issues as well, such as bad licensing, copyright violations or being out of scope. It might be easier to approach the images based on some easy-to-filter characteristics. By chance I just created User:Basvb/Logos/2012, which filtered everything with "logo" in the title, most of these are uploaded as own work and might meet the threshold of originality or on the other hand be unused (or even advertisement). Mvg, Basvb (talk) 23:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm very skeptical about bot-based categorization, but it would be good to have a list of uncategorized images that are, in fact, in use so that those can get scrutiny first. - Jmabel ! talk 16:53, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
That would be fairly easy to do, just check for images with the uncat template which appear as having entries in the globalimagelinks table and then stick the list in a report. Unfortunately due to a problem with replication, the database tables for Commons which volunteers have access to are significantly out of date, so this is something only worth doing when the problem is fixed by the WMF, hopefully sooner rather than later as it's becoming a real stumbling block for many of our maintenance tasks. Refer to -- (talk) 18:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Jmabel, I was proposing to do some filtering with bots and then manually process the filtered results, combining the power of machines and the power of humans (make fast judgements based on visual input: images) we should be able to speed up some processes. Mvg, Basvb (talk) 18:59, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@Basvb:, I realize out of scope or bad licensing is an issue in the main category, so priority could be targeted to subcategories that already have suitable license and educational scope, e.g. Media from the National Archives and Records Administration needing categories‎ or Files from Wellcome Images (categorization needed). I think bots can help with bare minimal categorizing, but are not as smart as humans: additional human effort is needed in the files such as Files from Wellcome Images (check needed), which often have overly broad or irrelevant categories based on titles or keywords of the original file (e.g. "book"). Animalparty (talk) 19:20, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Yep, I initially misread (the number in the welcome images is around the same as for the 2012 category). I think there's two ways of looking at priorisation (with over half a million uncategorised images you'll have to prioritise), one way is to first categorize the useful images (allready in use, licensing in order), the other way is to try and throw out the bad stuff (that was more the approach I was taking). Mvg, Basvb (talk) 19:24, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
If an image is used on wikipedia than one might look for commons categories associated with a given article. Any image found on one of 1.17M en-wp pages related to people (and using en:Template:Persondata) can be probably added to a new category with the same name as the English article and added to Category:People by name, and births/death categories. Similarly some roles can be developed for categorizing and creating new categories based on articles related to places, organisms and probably more. --Jarekt (talk) 18:25, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

November 26[edit]

App for iOS (iPhone)[edit]

Could someone help me confirming if the app for ios still exists? I cannot find it anywhere. Thank you for your help. I can't even find its name, but surely a few months ago I had dowloaded an app allowing to upload photos direcly onto Commons. Thanks Anxe Lytton (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

@Anxe Lytton: The Commons app has been removed from app stores, see Commons:Mobile app.    FDMS  4    23:01, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
@FDMS4: Thank you for your answer :-) Anxe Lytton (talk) 23:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

November 27[edit]

Bill Cosby photos on US Senate website[edit]

Can these four (4) photos of Bill Cosby and U.S. Senator Chris Coons be uploaded locally here to Wikimedia Commons with license {{PD-USGov}} ?

Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 04:37, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

These photos are embedded there from Flickr, and are originally available in this Flickr set, and all of them are tagged as a US government work. So, yes, go ahead, best to do that with Flickr2Commons. darkweasel94 12:27, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the help! -- Cirt (talk) 13:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  1. File:Sen. Coons and Bill Cosby at Joshua Harvest Church in Wilmington (8371290168).jpg
  2. File:Sen. Coons and Bill Cosby at Joshua Harvest Church in Wilmington (8371291348).jpg
  3. File:Sen. Coons and Bill Cosby at Joshua Harvest Church in Wilmington (8370226691).jpg
  4. File:Sen. Coons and Bill Cosby at Joshua Harvest Church in Wilmington (8370225895).jpg

✓ Done, now all uploaded locally here to Commons, just awaiting Flickrreview. :) -- Cirt (talk) 14:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)