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Welcome to the Village pump

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Getting translations from Wikidata[edit]

Is there currently an effort to enable use of Wikidata to get translations, and if yes, where can I follow the progress and/or help? Thanks --Reinhard Müller (talk) 09:02, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Reinhard, for this to properly work we first need arbitrary access to Wikidata items. Take for example Haarlem and Category:Haarlem, Haarlem is connected to d:Q9920 so we can use all the data (including translations) from this item. On Category:Haarlem we can't access this data, because this category is connected with a different item. With arbitrary access we can access the other item opening up a whole new world of possibilities. At the moment arbitrary access is being rolled to the first wiki's. We have several open bugs:
  • T49930 - "Allow accessing data from a Wikidata item not connected to the current page - arbitrary access (tracking)", the general overview bug
  • T98307 - "Deploy usage tracking and arbitrary access to commonswiki", enable the feature here
  • T89594 - "Use the arbitrary access to Wikidata feature on Commons (tracking)", all sorts of nice things we can do with the data
  • T89601 - "Build a Multilingual tag alternative in LUA using data from Wikidata", that's probably closest to what you want
How are your LUA skills? ;-) Multichill (talk) 19:47, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi Multichill, thanks for your reply, these links are certainly enough to keep myself up with the progress of this issue. I had a look at LUA and might try to play around a little with it when arbitary access is enabled. --Reinhard Müller (talk) 23:25, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
@Reinhard Müller: actually, we should have started with converting our templates to LUA yesterday. I was talking about that with @SamB: on irc:
First existing functionality has to be reimplemented in LUA, tested, debugged, deployed etc and when we're finally done, we can add new things like grabbing data from Wikidata. Multichill (talk) 19:59, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
@Multichill:: I'm not sure I fully understand. Which templates would you reimplement in LUA right now? --Reinhard Müller (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
@Reinhard Müller:: Well, any of those which we're hopeful to ad Wikidata support to once we have arbitrary access, like {{Authority control}}, {{Institution}}, and {{Creator}}, will first need their basic functionality reimplemented in Lua, and unlike the Wikidata features, we can start on the basic functionality now. The tracking ticket for places we want to use arbitrary Wikidata access is:
If we don't start now, then we'll look kind of silly when they finally roll out arbitrary access and nothing seems to happen. —SamB (talk) 02:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah, obviously I needed Commons:Structured data to understand where this is heading :-)
Sounds like an interesting project. If a rainy weekend comes up, I might have a look, but please don't hold your breath! --Reinhard Müller (talk) 16:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I make extensive use of Wikidata for the translation work that I do. Unfortunately a recent change to the formatting of Wikidata makes it very difficult to use now. I used to be able to just copy and paste the list of wikis with the file names into a spread sheet, but now I can not do that and just get garbage instead. That is an inexcusable change to Wikidata that needs to be corrected, so that the data, the wiki, whether it is FA/GA, and the file name, are in columns that are tab separated to enable using copy and paste. As a work around, you can get an unformatted copy of the data at (change Q42 to the item number that you want). There is also a third party display that can be used at

To use it just change the query to the Q item you want and select the wikidata formatting that you want from the tab that says "Wikidata". You have to be logged in to Google to use it. Delphi234 (talk) 15:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Category:Petrol stations in Massachusetts and similar categories for other locations[edit]

I do not understand why we have changed this from Category:Gas stations in Massachusetts. The word "petrol" is not used in the United States. Categories are supposed to help people, especially people who are unfamiliar with Commons, to find images that they need for one reason or another. A person coming to Category:Buildings in Massachusetts to look for images of gas stations will conclude, incorrectly, that there are no images of gasoline stations in Massachusetts on Commons.

The following is from Commons:Naming_categories#Principles:

  • "Names of Commons categories should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists.
  • Category naming should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making categorization of media files easy and second nature."

We could argue all day whether the majority of English speakers use the word "gas" or the word "petrol", but it is clear that the word "petrol" is not used at all in the United States and therefore in following this principle it should not be used for locations in the United States. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 10:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC) @Jameslwoodward: this has already been reverted (or, more accurately, reversion has been requested of a bot. - Jmabel ! talk 14:51, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks both for the note and for the action. .     Jim . . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 15:45, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
The only acceptable pinciple is that of terminological stability. Assuming that there is not a regional variant in the named object (as seems to be the case) we need and want the same word for the same concept regardless of location. Local specific of English dialectology, charming as they might be, are irrelevant, as are the stated concerns of addressing a local user’s base. There is only two ways about it, one right, and another wrong:
There’s no 3rd alternative. If dialect diversitity (within English) is a principle to be held above terminological homogenity, then language diversitity should matter too — for the same exact reasons, now applying globally, not only within the confines of the English speaking world. It seems that it is still necessary to stress that English in Wikimedia Commons is a mere commodity, naturally chosen on practical grounds, and that its dialectological diversitity is for us a nuisance — quite opposite to what happens in the English Wikipedia. -- Tuválkin 19:49, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Two more examples:
  • The same for the quaint use of "trolley" and "street car" for selected cases of what is termed a "tram" everywherelse, regardless of local language use.
  • The same, too, also for instances of exoticistic use of unnecessary non-English terms in specific countries/regions, such as "azulejo" instead of "tile" when used in Spanish- or Portuguese-themed categories.
(And there’s whole giant bunch more of these to get rid of.) -- Tuválkin 20:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
For the record, w:en itself uses "en:Filling station" as the base term, with the appropriate terminological and dialectological discussion. Would it be suitable to rename the whole tree in Commons? -- Tuválkin 11:04, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Possibly, although maybe "service station" would be better. --ghouston (talk) 11:55, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
I support using "gas station" in articles about facilities in the U.S. "Petrol" just makes me think of "Petrel", a seagull-like bird. BD2412 T 15:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Way to miss the point. (Also — articles…?) -- Tuválkin 18:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Recognizability of category titles matters. Are there people in the English-speaking world who would not recognize "gas station"? BD2412 T 19:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
It should at least be expanded to "Gasoline stations", and according to Wikipedia that name is only used in North America. What do you think about "Filling stations" or "Service stations"?. These establishments do sell other prducts, like diesel and gas (as in LPG, not gasoline). --ghouston (talk) 05:40, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Only used in North America, where 70% of the native English speakers live.--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:43, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't think there's any Commons policy to use a particular variant of English. The category tree is currently using a regional variant, "Petrol stations", which was the cause of the current discussion, and switching to a different regional variant is unlikely to help much. --ghouston (talk) 10:56, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Filling stations, service stations, fuel stations, all would be preferable to "petrol". The Wikipedia article is at w:Filling station. No one actually calls these "gasoline stations". BD2412 T 17:50, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
We have a general principle of locality on Commons. For instance we have "Railway stations in the United Kingdom" (because railway station is the British term) versus "railroad stations in the United States" (railroad being the American version). There is no such thing as a "gas station in Dorset", as no one in Dorset would use such a term. If there were a "gas station" in Dorset, it would presumably be a railway station serving a natural gas plant. "Petrol stations in Dorset" is correct, "Petrol stations in Massachusetts" is not. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:13, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I hadn't heard about this. That would mean Tuválkin's second option with Category:Benzineras in Catalonia, and who knows what in Chinese. --ghouston (talk) 22:30, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be Benzineras de Catalunya? Of course this variant fails the "category names in English" policy. But if we used the regional names, maybe Petrol stations in England, Gas stations in the USA and Service stations in Australia, then what would be used for non-English countries? A single name for the whole category tree is by far the superior option. --ghouston (talk) 22:37, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Only for the top of the tree. The branches need to be named using category names that make sense for that location. Gas stations in the U.S. for example. There is nothing wrong with Petrol stations having categories that include gas stations and service stations as well as petrol stations. Delphi234 (talk) 15:26, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't know. Logically the name doesn't matter much and it's better to pick one and use it everywhere. However if this idea is unpopular, then maybe you are right and we just have to put up with it until categories become translatable. After that, you'll presumably see "Petrol stations" everywhere if you select British English and "Gas stations" if you select American. There would be similar problems unifying the names of other categories that appear to be the same thing, such as Category:Terraced houses and Category:Row houses or the subcategories of Category:Controlled-access highways by country. --ghouston (talk) 22:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I may be exaggerating the capabilities of Wikidata: it seems it doesn't support multiple versions of English [1]. In that case, there will actually be necessary to pick a single name if in future "Structured data" means that category intersections are specified dynamically (so that categories like Gas stations in the United States no longer exists, but are formed from "Gas stations" (or whatever the category is called) and "United States". However as I mentioned below, I don't think this is happening soon. --ghouston (talk) 23:28, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

I wonder how soon it will be until one will be able to "view" category names in languages other than English while seeing the category trees. It would be especially helpful for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean viewers and editors. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:48, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

I suspect it won't happen for years. Such a change would be probably be based on Commons:Structured data, which is currently on hold, and is nowhere near to encompassing categories. --ghouston (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[edit]

Hi, The site, which hosts RAW file for Commons is down. I tried to contact Dcoetzee, but no answer so far. Any idea what to do? Regards, Yann (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, he has been banned by the WMF and might not have anymore interest in this. --Túrelio (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, obviously. But this service is quite useful. Who could host such a site? And how to get a copy of the files there, if possible? Regards, Yann (talk) 21:17, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
@Yann: I just had a successful connection to the site. Apparently the DNS entry (somewhere) has expired, but googleing "" revealed its IP address is Adding "" to local /etc/hosts, and navigate to should work. I think it's better to set up a DNS entry somehow. In the meantime, I'll see how to backup this wiki, as it might get broken anytime. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 07:20, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Right. It works for me that way. Thanks, Yann (talk) 07:52, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Yann and Zhuyifei1999 --The Photographer (talk) 22:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

@Yann, The Photographer: I backed up all the (publicly visible) revisions and all the current versions of files with the help of my modified version of wikiteam. Shall I create a read-only wiki to import them or publish the dump? --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 12:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, whatever you can do. Yann (talk) 12:18, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Zhuyifei1999: Yes, please, you saved my life!, let me know when it is ready to change commonsarchive template. We hope that this problem can be solved soon. Everything seems to be that the domain expired and the owner is on vacation. --The Photographer (talk) 13:09, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Yann, The Photographer: All dumped are imported to tool labs, and I'll setup short urls tomorrow. I can't enable open registration because of the tool labs rules though, so this can't be a permanent solution.

@Yann, The Photographer: You can login via oauth now after oauth consumer ff6b05e3444853dac5c7f4b68c497bc7 is approved :D --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 09:34, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks!!! Zhuyi!!, what do you mean about "temporal solution" and i cant login:
Application Connection Error
"Commons Archive" is not approved as a Connected App. Contact the application author for help.
Connected OAuth app not approved, E005 

BTW. I sended a email for Steinsplitter about severals problems for upload new RAWS, about of max file size and upload wizard. Thanks. --The Photographer (talk) 13:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

@The Photographer: Well, the OAuth app waiting for approval, so I just temporary disabled oauth. You should be able to login normally.Approved, could you retry login? Also I fixed max file size today during my IRC chat with Steinsplitter, could you do a test upload and see if it works? And do you mean I should install upload wizard? I just installed it :) --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 13:34, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • @Zhuyifei1999: I have two users this, and this, could you unificate it in "The Photographer", every commons user can log in commonsarchive wmflabs?. Please install upload wizard and chunked uploads, I need upload a RAW of 6 GB. I need upload 7zip, zip, rar, png, raw, dng...etc. I dont know if you know some way to check if a zip,rar or compressed file has a binary or password. Because we dont want virues there. Can I kiss you ? --The Photographer (talk) 14:45, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it would be a security issue to allow 6 GB uploads. --Steinsplitter (talk) 15:50, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
In the project Commons:Project to create spherical panoramas of important monuments, we are working (assuming a 5D Mk iii full frame camera) with the follow:
  • 14mm rectilinear: 12 shots and 98 megapixels (two rows of 5 and a zenith and nadir)
  • 16mm rectilinear: 14 shots and 128 megapixels (two rows of 6 and a zenith and nadir)
  • 24mm rectilinear: 24 shots and 289 megapixels (one central row of 8, two rows of 7 and a zenith and nadir)
  • 28mm rectilinear: 27 shots and 394 megapixels (one central row of 9, two rows of 8 and a zenith and nadir)
  • 35mm rectilinear: 42 shots and 616 megapixels (two central rows of 11, two rows of 9 and a zenith and nadir)
  • 50mm rectilinear: 58 shots 1.2 gigapixels (one central row of 16, two rows of 15, two rows of 10 and a zenith and nadir)

The more pixels you got the file will become bigger, in this case a panoramic of 245 images with a D300 camera make a bigest dng file ~ 6 GB ziped. --The Photographer (talk) 16:12, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Wow 6 Gegabytes! Even commons, which has a better backend than labs, can't deal with such a huge file. Would you break it down to smaller zips and try the upload? I'll work on the chunked upload feature tomorrow. As for who is allowed to login, it's currently decided that all autoconfirmeds and confirmed users on commons are allowed to login. Login of non-autoconfirmeds are not very necessary as they are new to commons anyways, and they might simply be spammers. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 17:18, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
If you have the free space (I'm not sure what the space limits on labs looks like), you could transfer it to your labs account via scp, and then run importImages.php to import it from the local file system. Bawolff (talk) 21:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Afaik 6 GB isn't a problem for labs nfs. But my internet connection is not good enough to download and upload 6 GB within a reasonable amount of time (nor I think Steinsplitter can). --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 01:00, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
@The Photographer: You can opt-in for Chunked uploads in toollabs:commonsarchive/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-uploads, tested with a pdf version of Voynich manuscript --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 01:54, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Zhuyifei1999 for your help. I didn't know it is possible/allowed to install MediaWiki on the Labs. This looks like a good solution for the forseeable future. As I am admin on this archive, I will keep a watch about potential issues. Regards, Yann (talk) 20:05, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

@Zhuyifei1999: Can you try setting $wgTiffThumbnailType = array( 'jpg', 'image/jpeg' ); at the bottom of LocalSettings.php? Some raw file formats are close enough to tiff, that that might be enough to make them have thumbnails. Bawolff (talk) 21:51, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Tested, it worked, but it consumed a lot of time and memory to generate the thumb, making rendering very slow. I'd rather not risk the tool getting deleted because of too much consumption. --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 01:00, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Domain Status: pendingDelete -- -- perhaps someone can grab the domain as soon as it is "dropped from the registry database". -- Rillke(q?) 22:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

How do I contact another user to tell him I appreciate a specific contribution of his to a specific wiki page?[edit]

Hello, I wish to contact "user:johndoe" to tell him a specific ONE PIECE of content he added to an article, was very impressive? I do not wish to use the content, alter it, or even see it again. So please do not think I need a different page I have already seen. While researching cuttlefish bones, I was very impressed with his "Aligned flight through image stack of µCT-data of a cuttlebone, top view.ogg" and I think it took him a long time to create this content, and would thus like to let him know his time was appreciated. How can I contact "User:johnDoe" to tell him myself, I appreciate this specific contribution/graphic to the Cuttlebone wiki? AND; Is this type of contact to show appreciation discouraged by the wiki community, because it may be considered a waste of a possibly busy author's valuable time? Thank you, Perry in Florida USA

If you look at the page history, there is a link you can use to Thank that edit. Alternatively, you can simply leave a comment into "user talk:johndoe" telling exactly what you said above. Platonides (talk) 22:56, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
To expand on that (the last question): Thanking users is highly encouraged. Basvb (talk) 00:10, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
And greatly appreciated. Simply thanking someone can make the difference between them taking the effort to make another contribution, or not. Delphi234 (talk) 15:41, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

May 08[edit]

Noctilucenta font release[edit]

Just an update, the libre font discussed earlier has seen its first release, under the name “Noctilucenta”! Go get it now!—Kelvinsong talk 15:47, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Wow! -- Tuválkin 22:08, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks!!—Kelvinsong talk 23:16, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Wow!++ Jee 03:06, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Facebook like thumb.png How could we further promote the font? I really like that font for reading texts on screen in it. -- Rillke(q?) 22:18, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Any plans making LaTex packages? -- Rillke(q?) 22:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I would also propose to get this at meta:SVG fonts!? User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  23:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks y’all!! <3 @Rillke the main problem is not enough people know about Noctilucenta—it currently only has 17 downloads and ten notes on its github repository… && I might make LaTeX packages once I fill it up with a more complete set of math symbols because right now it’s still missing a few important ones I think @User: Perhelion Dunno how to upload it to the wikimedia server but if you know how by all means do so lol!—Kelvinsong talk 21:25, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
User:Kelvinsong, Noctilucenta is missing "ɮ" (or was, when I downloaded it). Any special reason? It is merely a conjoined "l"+"ʒ"… -- Tuválkin 10:53, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I left out the digraph IPA letters because they are deprecated—i think you’re supposed to just write “lʒ” now—Kelvinsong talk 12:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
That means that Noctilucenta is useless to typeset old documents using those deprecated characters, as well as new and old documents pertaining those deprecated characters. Too bad. -- Tuválkin 19:56, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Alright I’ve released a new version that contains said glyphs @TuválkinKelvinsong talk 00:13, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Yay! -- Tuválkin 01:31, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Try to get it into Google fonts ;) Other things you might want to consider are release debian/ubuntu font packages etc. I'm sure some folks can help. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:09, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kelvinsong: The "download font" buttons on your landing page returned 404. --99of9 (talk) 04:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

That's because Kelvinsong updated to v.1.01 (digraph IPA letters). Grab it from -- Rillke(q?) 08:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
@99of9 this has been fixed—Kelvinsong talk 20:36, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Question about images in a category[edit]

Pierpao submitted a bot request and I noticed there are currently a large number of pictures in Category:Files uploaded by Russavia (rename) and I wanted to ask about a couple things regarding those images and this has nothing really to do with Russavia but as a general question as I learn about things here in commons. Sorry if this example is a sensitive subject.

  1. Is it really appropriate to have user based work categories like this? I get needing to have maintenance categories but this seems unnecessary. Additionally so in this case since the user isn't allowed to edit.
  2. Several of the images in that category have borders. Should we mark them to have the borders cropped?
  3. Most importantly of the questions IMO, several of the images in this category are marked with a copyright tag. Should these even be allowed in commons if they are copywritten in this way. One example is this one but there are quite a few like it. Reguyla (talk) 17:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
  1. They need to be in some kind of maintenance category so that people can find files which have been identified as needing renaming. Either keep them in the current category, or put them directly in Category:Media requiring renaming without the related template. I don't see any big need in changing the way the files currently are grouped.
  2. Yes. The first file I looked at already was in Category:Images from Flickr with borders.
  3. File:20100524- DSC6204 (4871747439).jpg has a copyright notice in the border. This means that you need to consider Commons:Watermarks#Legal issues with the removal of watermarks before removing the border per 2) above. These watermarks are allowed but unwanted. --Stefan4 (talk) 17:37, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Stefan4. Reguyla (talk) 20:27, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Fixed this one. Yann (talk) 07:26, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I fixed several hundreds of files from these categories. But still more to do: 900 and 3,019. Regards, Yann (talk) 15:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

New graphing and mapping software[edit]

If you want to know more, then there's an upcoming talk about the new Vega-based graphing system this week. It's 13:00 PDT on Thursday, 14 May, which I think works out to 21:00 UTC. If you're interested, the link is There should be a demo as well as some technical information about how the system is built. Please share this link with anyone who may be interested. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

To get an idea of the sort of things you can do, here is a pie graph of how big all the subcategories of category:Sunsets_of_India_by_color are:

Bawolff (talk) 02:52, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

I do hope someone in the development team has run through "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Edward Tufte and similar works - especially the concepts of data-ink ratio (maybe data to screen-real-estate here) - look forward to this and I hope it is not all about pie charts. Shyamal (talk) 06:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Other examples are on MediaWiki. Bidgee (talk) 08:07, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Interesting, very very interesting. Thanks for the info. --El Grafo (talk) 12:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
  • The video has a count down clock on it that shows how soon it will be starting. A bit over four hours from now. Delphi234 (talk) 15:33, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
    By the way, I would hardly call SVG and PNG's "last century". While the new graphing functions are handy they are not by any means a replacement for having a separate image, which offers many significant advantages. For example, you can create a chart on commons and it is instantly available everywhere. Create it on a wiki using graphing and you have to recreate it and separately maintain it on every wiki where it appears, which could be on over 100 separate wikis, each in their own language. One of the tricks that I use is to use {{CURRENTYEAR}} on each wiki if I know the chart is updated frequently, so that it never has to be changed, and every year will automatically display the right year for the chart date range. Delphi234 (talk) 15:55, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree, especially about the SVG - seems like it would have been easier to render SVG markup generated by a LUA module for instance. The SVG specification allows for parameters. Shyamal (talk) 03:00, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Of course images are not dead - after all, Graphoid, the Graph's backend, generates them to make page loading faster. My point was that we shouldn't post images that are very hard to change, when we can post the source data + graph info that converts that data into a picture or possibly even animation (once available). SVG is fairly complex to work with, and PNGs cannot be modified at all (need to be regenerated from the source). On the other hand, you do raise a very valid point that graphs, or more generically - any pages - cannot be transcluded from commons. That is a huge limitation in my opinion, and we really should work on allowing common repository of templates and lua code, usable by all wikis. --Yurik (talk) 14:33, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

@Shyamal: I was more interested in playing with the ability to create graphs from data about the wiki then the type, so I used a pie graph as it was the first example I came across. The graphing extension supports a wide variety of graphs types, and I believe you can even tell it to draw rectangles or other things in order to make custom graph types. As a matter of fact, the graph extension is not an entirely new graphing system, but actually taking an existing graphing program (Vega), and graphing (If you'll excuse my pun) onto MediaWiki. Bawolff (talk) 19:50, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

@Bawolff: I realized a bit later, after posting, that the Vega system is more generic. Shyamal (talk) 03:00, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
As a reminder, this is about to start now at and #wikimedia-office on irc. Bawolff (talk) 19:59, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

May 14[edit]

Category:Files that need updating[edit]

A new hidden category has been created, Category:Files that need updating for files that need to be updated. It has subcategories for articles that have time sensitive data that has to be updated on a regular basis, such as daily, weekly, monthly, and annually. Delphi234 (talk) 14:28, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Generally, it is a good idea to create a file redirect instead and upload those graphics for each time interval under a separate file name so we can reference historical data as well. After uploading a new file (e.g. File:Average Residential Price of Electricity by State 2015.svg), we would then change the file redirect to point to the newly uploaded file. Further reading.
Additionally adopting {{Current}} to categorize files into said categories and using the template instead would highlight the fact the files are updated periodically. -- Rillke(q?) 08:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I do not mind creating dated files if anyone is going to use them, but in most cases the data changes more often than it makes any sense to create separate images for each time. Even the residential electricity rates, I would think that one named file every four or five years would be often enough, and just update the current file the intervening years. Could someone please modify {{Current}} so that it adds a parameter that if chosen will place the file into the "daily" "weekly" "monthly" or "annually" categories of Category:Files that need updating? Delphi234 (talk) 07:46, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
✓ Done -- Rillke(q?) 08:43, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Delphi234 (talk) 02:35, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Deletion request question[edit]

I’d like help understanding why a deletion request was denied. The photo was originally titled “Church of Scientology Boston”. If you type that into Google search the commons photo (of the Church of Christ, Scientist) will show up. It’s not until you actually click into the commons picture that the new name shows. I think I understand why retaining licenses are important but this photo was misnamed for the first five years (only the description was changed four years ago). It’s only been correctly named for the last year.

User BASVB suggest using rename for this. How will that take care of the issue mentioned above- google image misdirecting and numerous years of being mislabeled? Is having five years of people potentially misusing a file worth keeping it for the one year it was correctly labeled? Thanks

Counter steer (talk) 19:07, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the image is now correctly named and labelled as File:Church of Christ, Scientist Boston.jpg. Typing "Church_of_Scientology_Boston" in Google leads you to File:Church of Scientology Boston.jpg as first result, which seems correct, too. Then, where is the problem?--Pere prlpz (talk) 22:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Google is probably finding the redirection link File:1408 px - Church of Scientology Boston.JPG that you already linked to. Maybe you'd have had more success asking for this link to be deleted, than trying to delete the correctly-named image itself. (I don't know if Commons has any policy about deleting misleading redirections.) --ghouston (talk) 01:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Google doesn't seem to be very aware of redirects. At least, the main reason given by proposers of widespread renaming policy is that Google just uses present file name. Then, I suppose that any remaining wrong Google search is just caused some cached result and will be fixed soon.--Pere prlpz (talk) 09:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, Pere prlpz, as I see it, the problem is that the second image that comes up in the search you mentioned, is also stored on commons.Wikimedia, but it's a different church. It's been two years since the file was moved. Since two years haven't corrected the issue with Google's cache, can the original file be deleted as --ghouston suggested? The whole time it was mislabeled it was misdirecting people. Keeping the two files that were created after it was correctly labeled means those linked to either renamed files will stay connected, while those linked under the old name were provided faulty info and unfortunately will loose the connection. Counter steer (talk) 16:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Google images always shows weird result after the first ones. If there is no clear result, even the first one might be weird. I think the problem is the way Google works, not the redirect. Pages linking both images and linking to Scientist and Scientolyo probably help to mess work engines. Deleting the redirect won't fix that. Furthermore, if people is misusing the image online, they will be fuelling Google misguiding.--Pere prlpz (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I've changed the redirect to point to the Scientology building. Anybody using the link was probably confused anyway. Now we can find out, giving a few months, whether it has any effect on Google image results. Alternatively, please revert my change if you think it's a bad idea. --ghouston (talk) 22:51, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you both. Counter steer (talk) 14:45, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

May 15[edit]


please see the deletion request page. There is a dispute regarding photo of a Japanese celebrity, allegedly raised by a JAWP user Can456man claiming that he/she is from the celeb's management agency --Puramyun31 (talk) 01:27, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Batch deletion of files within a category[edit]

Hi, I've imported a number of files using the Flickr2commons tool, but have unfortunately messed up both the filename prefixes and the descriptions in these files. I think the easiest way to fix this would be to delete them all and re-import them again with corrected prefixes and descriptions. How would I go about doing this? I don't really want to add a delete request for each file individually. I believe that submitting a category deletion request only deletes the category and not the files within. Or can I batch-fix the filenames and descriptions?

All the files are in this category. I only want to delete/fix the files in the category, not the category itself or its subcategories (and their files).--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 07:10, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Commons:Bots/Work requests might be a good place to address this matter. VisualFileChange allows mass-deletion and edits on files contained in a category, including adding templates like {{rename}} and using patterns from the file name grabbing information from the file's metadata. If you would be a little more specific about what should be changed, assessment whether it could be done without deletion - which is generally the preferred way to go - would be possible. -- Rillke(q?) 07:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
@Rillke: Thank you. Those tools look handy; I'll have a look at them. The things I need done are:
  1. In each filename in this category, replace "Tua Pek Kong Temple -" with "Ping Sien Si -".
  2. In each file's description, replace "[[w:Tua Pek Kong Temple, Sibu|Tua Pek Kong Temple]]" with "Ping Sien Si Temple".
  3. In each file's description, replace "[[w:Sibu|Sibu]]" with "[[w:Perak|Perak]]".
--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 10:09, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
@Cpt.a.haddock: Okay? (configuration, settings in profile) -- Rillke(q?) 11:15, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
@Rillke: OK x 100! Thank you! --Cpt.a.haddock (talk) 11:38, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

When are duplicates (with different licenses) not duplicates?[edit]

(As ur policies says, difficult/disputed admin decisions can be discussed on VP.)

OT: RRZEicons bad quality, AnonMoos had fixed most in whitespace and dimension

Cleaning or maintenance seems always be very difficult thing on Commons and more like a senseless doing, because people doing different things to the same issue. Concrete here, normally and common is, that whitespace is not a reason for keeping duplicates, normally and common is, that duplicates have not another license and author (normally and common is, that admins answer to his admin-decisions… but not on Commons as so often). What is this, can we give this as an extreme real example to the Commons policies? What is your opinion here? User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  12:27, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

@Perhelion: Are all uploads of User:RRZEicons icons derived from the Tango project? If the only thing changed is some white space margin/padding, clearly all of them are copyfraud and out of scope anyway. I don't see a reason to keep such unused duplicates. --McZusatz (talk) 16:34, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your statement and opinion, that's also my opinion. The RRZEicons-set have a relatively amateurish quality (as you can see on every icon, see right, also noticeable on the filesize) some have also included raster-images (for example all people icons). But not all are full derived from the Tango-set, nearly all are combinations of existing symbols. IMO the tweaks are bad, like very dark shadow or only darker contours, or only colour changes, but this is not the topic. User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  20:52, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhelion -- no-one disputed that the images had basically the same vector data, but that doesn't in itself necessarily mean that they're fully interchangeable and therefore functionally equivalent. The other issue was not raised in the original deletion nomination, and would better be addressed for all files simultaneously (not one at a time). AnonMoos (talk) 08:06, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Hello AnonMoos, that is difficult. What do you mean with "other issue"? If it means "copyfraud", this appears not to all and was also mentioned in the original deletion nomination. User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?)  13:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

May 16[edit]

Flickr2Commons partial uploads[edit]

While doing license reviews yesterday and today, I've noticed a few uploaded using F2C that didn't fully upload. Doesn't look like a big issue, but each file had a different uploader. Maybe a minor bug. I've overwritten them directly, but they still need to be reviewed:

Hope that's all. Thanks. INeverCry 09:08, 16 May 2015 (UTC)


Embroidered commons logo.jpg
The British Library has media related to Magna Carta.

I thought people might enjoy this embroidered version of the Commons logo, taken from Magna Carta (An Embroidery), a 40-foot long recreation in needlework of the en-wiki article Magna Carta as it stood in May 2014, that was unveiled at the British Library on Thursday.

Further images at c:Category:Magna Carta (An Embroidery). Jheald (talk) 14:01, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Could you please link to the files (eg. [[:File:Embroidered_commons_logo.jpg]] = File:Embroidered_commons_logo.jpg), rather than displaying them? Bidgee (talk) 14:32, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
I could do that, but I thought people might like to actually see them. Incidentally, why isn't the indenting working when there's a left-justified image? Jheald (talk) 16:03, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Jheald, left-floating of blocks and indentation doesn’t play along together (especially horrible if there’s bulleting), that’s a long standing issue in HTML. I took the liberty of floating both images to the right. (Were this Arabic or Hebrew text, they should be floated to the left.) -- Tuválkin 12:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
To be frank, I don't like the commons logo at all; looks too similar to the mars symbol, or even worse with its 8 spears. -- Rillke(q?) 19:31, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, I enjoyed it, even if no one else did... AnonMoos (talk) 08:09, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

I liked it. Instead of just the t-shirts at , WMF should sell some classy shirts with project logos embroidered on, imo. Bawolff (talk) 09:06, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Selling? I think WMF has enough money to give a t-shirt for free to commons volunteers :-P. Or a commons coffee cup? --Steinsplitter (talk) 13:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Very cool, to see our logo (fugly or purty) in the “flesh” like that. -- Tuválkin 12:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Give someone you appreciate a t-shirt[edit]

Dear all,

do you know any awsome Wikimedians? Nominate them for a free Wikimedia t-shirt. It is just like a barnstar, only you can wear it.

All the best, --ThePolish 14:15, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

I thought that had ended, seems I was wrong! Bidgee (talk) 14:30, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
It has started another time and will continue. :D --ThePolish 08:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

May 17[edit]

File:Vladas Dzindziliauskas 1933.jpg Deletion[edit]


What was the problem with the file Vladas Dzindziliauskas 1933.jpg that was deleted by Edgars2007 request? Possibly Edgars2007 has some strictly personal problems with this file.

All the files, that I'm uploading (exept two Rema Abdo 1984 LA.jpg and Balys Giedraitis.jpg that was not made my me; and I've no claims about those two) are legal and has all leagal rights for sharing it in Lithuania. The most of my shared files goes from the personal archives of people that are on pictures. The most of those pictures were kept hidded by the family members (in many cases risking to be prosecuted by the Soviet Communist regime and it's watchdogs - KGB) during all the second Soviet occupation of Lithuania (1944-1990). Now we are free and can uncover and share our historical pictures without any risk to be prosecuted by KGB. I hope that Wikimedia has no problems about freedom of Lithuania.

Please return the file Vladas Dzindziliauskas 1933.jpg that I've spent a more than a few hours to be prapaired and made ready to be published on Wikimedia on it's proper places: Hereand here

I've hundreds of other interesting, original and very rare (restricted by the Soviet Communist Regime in Lithuania for many years), but the same legal files about the First Republic of Lithuania (1918-1940) to be shared here, but I don't want to waste my time and effords because of someones like Edgars2007 personal state of mind. I suppose this person somehow missunderstood and became angry on me, when I've tried to share the file Rūdolfs Jurciņš 1934.jpg - old friendly carricature - drawing by Lithuanian artist A. Čepas of Latvian sports celebrity from 30-ties on Latvian Wiki page about this famous Latvian pre-war basketball player.

By my opinion it was very stupid and inappropriate reaction by the colleague Edgars2007 from Latvia, because all the sports celebrities in pre-war Lithuania and also Latvia were very popular models for such graphic artists like A. Čepas and others. The degree of popularity of famous Lithuanian and Latvian pre-Soviet occupation sports stars can be indicated now by the quantity of caricature portraits of them, that were published then. Because the quality of photography in the pre-war press was comparatively law, the caricature drawings were so popular. So my sharing the file Rūdolfs Jurciņš 1934.jpg on Latvian article about the Rūdolfs Jurciņš was not of any bad intentions, but otherwise - I just wanted to illustrate how popular he was (also in Lithuania).

You should correct the author and source information of most of your uploads. For example you describe yourself as the creator of the drawing File:Antanas Lingis 1934.jpg and you declare copyright on it. In fact you are not the creator, the creator is likely not unknown and the copyright status is unclear. Regretably you provided false author and source info with the majority of your uploads.
To answer your question: The problem with named files is that you provided false information and that the license you selected is obviously wrong: You are not the copyright holder, the file has to be public domain for a verifiable reason. With your first upload (File:E J Harrison-Mark Twain.JPG) you did everything right, regretably thats the only good upload I found. --Martin H. (talk) 11:38, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees elections 2015[edit]

Wmf logo vert pms.svg

This is a message from the 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee. Translations are available.

Voting has begun for eligible voters in the 2015 elections for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. Questions and discussion with the candidates for the Board will continue during the voting.

The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees is the ultimate governing authority of the Wikimedia Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization registered in the United States. The Wikimedia Foundation manages many diverse projects such as Wikipedia and Commons.

The voting phase lasts from 00:00 UTC May 17 to 23:59 UTC May 31. Click here to vote. More information on the candidates and the elections can be found on the 2015 Board election page on Meta-Wiki.

On behalf of the Elections Committee,
-Gregory Varnum (User:Varnent)
Volunteer Coordinator, 2015 Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee

Posted by the MediaWiki message delivery 17:20, 17 May 2015 (UTC) • TranslateGet help

And to showcase what’s have been WMF’s work this last couple years, today login is borked and cat-a-lot stopped working. A stern remind on how to vote. -- Tuválkin 16:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Turns out it is “only” central login that’s broken today. It is showing me pages with only some of my preferences implemented, so cute. Hitting refresh a few times fixes it, eventually. -- Tuválkin 16:55, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

May 18[edit]

"Caves of" or "caves in"[edit]

Hello, should one speak of "Caves of" or "caves in", e.g. Caves of France / Caves in France ? --Havang(nl) (talk) 10:51, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

As all 104 subcategories of Category:Caves by country use "Caves of X" I´d keep it that way (although "Caves in" would seem more logical to me because it refers to geographical location instead of possession - but I wouldn´t bother to change hundreds of categories just to be a little more correct). --Rudolph Buch (talk) 11:07, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree that "in" is the correct usage but given that the vast majority of similar categories use "of", it isn't worth the effort of changing the names as well as moving potentially hundreds of files. Green Giant (talk) 12:24, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I can fix it using my bot if you like? --Steinsplitter (talk) 14:21, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Well if you're volunteering...then yeah I would support changing to "in". Green Giant (talk) 15:39, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Correct also small to capital in Category:Caves of kurdistan. --Havang(nl) (talk) 18:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
✓ Done --Steinsplitter (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
How many subcategories of Category:Geography by country could this potentially apply to? Lakes, mountains, beaches etc.? --ghouston (talk) 22:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@Steinsplitter:, don't forget to fix any category redirects that result from this - just now Category:Caves of the United Kingdom redirected to Category:Caves in the United Kingdom and vice versa. I've fixed that one, but there's probably more.   An optimist on the run! 06:07, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

@Optimist on the run: Fixing what exactly? Looks fine for me. --Steinsplitter (talk) 06:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
See [2] Optimist on the run (logged on as Pek the Penguin) - talk 06:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
There is nothing i can do. It has just moved the cat description. --Steinsplitter (talk) 06:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Surprise: there are many more to do, if it's worth to do: . --Havang(nl) (talk) 09:35, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. I am going to call this an exercise in futility. Of is more grammatically correct for an object that is associated with a location than in, even though it is technically within a geographical location. I see 2200 of one 2400 of the other, with no reason to move one to the other just to make them the same, when you are actually slightly changing the meaning. A cave that spans three states, but is associated with Kentucky, can never be called "in Kentucky". Delphi234 (talk) 20:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Africa 2015[edit]

We are discussing themes for next fall photo contest. If you feel like weighing in and making suggestions, please do Commons:Wiki Loves Africa/2015 theme ideas Anthere (talk) 11:19, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

May 19[edit]

Trouble uploading video... upload restarts over and over[edit]

I'm trying to upload a video to File:Black_slug_at_Medieval_graveyard_near_Lewino_Poland_17_May_2015.ogv. It's about 90MB. I'm using the Upload Wizard. The first time I tried it gave me some error (forget what exactly) and said to retry. Now every time I retry, the upload progress bar counts down to zero, and then restarts with a larger and larger expected time for the upload to finish. But it never finishes and quickly get to the point where it will take longer than a day to upload. My internet connection is fine so it's something on the Common's side. Ideas how to proceed? Jason Quinn (talk) 10:14, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Moved question to Commons:Upload help#Trouble uploading video... upload restarts over and over. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


Steam special (231970043).jpg
I suspect around Helsinki with the M suburban train. Meanwhile I managed to classify nearly all European pictures from Category:Images uploaded by Natuur12 (clcean up2). From nearly 380 pics to less than 160.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:35, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Helsinki central railway station, before 2001-2003 rebuilds. MKFI (talk) 05:33, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Diesel locomotives (231990345).jpg

There are stil 3 European pic of diesel locs wich I cant locate. I suspect a Baltic state.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Class Tep 70 it seems. (Cyrillic signs + soviet logo + Google) --Sebari (talk) 18:55, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Diesel locomotive (231966873).jpg
Maybe this wil provide more local information.Smiley.toerist (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, the serial number seems to be TEP70-0052 (in cyrillic), which was a locomotive of soviet railroad (SŽD). The tags on Flickr for those two images include Estonia. But several russian train enthusiast pages seem to hint at the fact that it is driving for the South Eastern Railway or the October Railway nowadays (both subsidiaries of the Russian Railway). So probably a russian locomotive in Estonia? --Sebari (talk) 15:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Likely: the photografer seems to spend most of his time in Estonia. I try to get the photografer category sorted by date but this takes a lot of time. He cant be in two countries at the same time.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:43, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
One closer to home. Location?Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:28, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd say the EWS locos are somewhere on the Midland Main Line because the photos either side of it on the Flickr photo stream it came from are at Loughborough and St Pancras. It could be Leicester, the tower blocks in the background seem to fit with this image from Google Street View. Gasheadsteve (talk) 14:01, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: - Consensus at en:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways is that the British photograph is Leicester.   An optimist on the run! 21:41, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

May 20[edit]

Ideas on how to allow for navigation of categories for non-English speakers? (particularly non-Latin language users)[edit]

I have used and contributed to the Wikimedia Commons for several years, and one thing I have noticed is that navigation for users of non-Latin/non-European languages may have a difficult time


The Commons should make use easier for existing userbases which use non-Western languages. In particular: Arab League, the former Soviet Union, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Macau, and ROC/Taiwan.
With more and more users from Mainland China coming online, the Wikimedia community should cater to and serve them to expand Wikimedia's global knowledge base and impact.

In particular I am very interested in making Wikimedia easier to use for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean users. Currently category names cannot be configured to appear in languages other than English, so navigation is difficult for these users. I want to have an alternate navigation system to allow ease of use for these users.

One idea is to implement navigational images such as those in Category:Eiffel_Tower. Langswitch can be implemented over each label, so the labels of the navigation images CAN be changed to be displayed in East Asian languages. In particular I want to implement this in categories of major world sites/destinations and also major sites in Japan, South Korea, Mainland China, Taiwan/ROC, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how to implement alternate navigation systems for users of East Asian languages? WhisperToMe (talk) 08:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Why would English category names be less alien to, say, a monolingual Spaniard, than to a citizen of (officially English-speaking) Hong-Kong or India? What is a “western” language? (Ask a linguist: they dont have use for that concept.) Is a Hebrew-spelled Romance language like Sephardic more or less “Latin” than Latin-spelled Malay or Basque? Why would Japanese (of all people!) need your help in the use gadgetry? If we’re going for stereotypes here, at least let get them straight first… This mixing up between languages and alphabets/scripts, between content and interface — this is all very strange.
Anyway, there is some work going on, apparently (see above), to separate category names from category “essence” (as it is now, a category is its name, it is merely a “tag” (a collection of tagged items in a free-form tree-like structure), and by policy they are in English unless when it is a proper name), but it seems to be still in the realm of vaporware.
-- Tuválkin 12:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
They're less alien to speakers of European languages because oftentimes people can rely on cognates. Victor H Mair, a Sinologist, talks about this here when explaining why it's harder for an English speaker to leatn Chinese compared to Spanish: - In the case of South Asia the administration and mattersof business, and especially things related to science and technology, are done in English instead of the South Asian languages WhisperToMe (talk) 14:31, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
In general there is need for localized categories. It should be no problem, if all categories would be translated and redirected to the english named ones. Even for me as a westerner it's difficult to find the most appropriate category.--Kopiersperre (talk) 21:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
I also support having non-English category names redirect to English ones. I think that in addition there is a need for displaying category names in non-English languages. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:45, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Is that technically difficult? Dentalplanlisa (talk) 22:46, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

ship cabins[edit]

Stenaline cabin.jpg
There doesnt seem to be a category for passenger cabins on ships. There is Category:Berths (sleeping). Most cabins are standardized by compagny so please dont make a subcategory per ship.Smiley.toerist (talk) 09:58, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
There’s some stuff at Category:Ship compartments. -- Tuválkin 12:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I made a new Category:Ship cabins. Unfortunately Cabin is a word used for lots of things.Smiley.toerist (talk) 12:18, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Help with new template[edit]

Hello. I created a new template for images made by INPE (a Brazilian space research agency) which makes a lot of Remote sensing images, licenced under CC BY-SA. However, I can't manage to make the template to display the correct licence (it shows CC BY Brazil for some reason). Can anyone help me? Mateus S. Figueiredo (talk) 23:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

@Mateussf: You've used {{cc-by-3.0-br}}, which gives you CC-BY Brazil. If you want CC-BY-SA Brazil, you'll have to change that to {{cc-by-sa-3.0-br}} (note the additional "sa"). However, it seems that they use the "unported" version, so what you really want is {{cc-by-sa-3.0}} (without the "br"). Hope that helps? --El Grafo (talk) 07:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
It did help. I wasn't sure where the problem was but now I've located it. Thank you very much! Mateus S. Figueiredo (talk) 14:54, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

May 21[edit]

Do we have any standard about form of date in the Information template?[edit]

Do we have any standard about how to fill in date in the Information template? I keep having people make changes opposite to my uploads; that is, if I do it one way, people will "fix" it to the other and vice versa. For example, if I put a date like 2009-12-10 I've had people turn that to {{taken on|2009-12-10}}, but I've also seen people remove {{taken on}} and turn it back to 2009-12-10; I've had people or bots turn, say, {{other date|circa|1935}} to {{circa|1935}} and vice versa. - Jmabel ! talk 03:12, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:Information has a whole section on filling out the Date field. Sadly it doesn't say anything about specifying the time zone. --ghouston (talk) 03:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
As the documentation of the {{tl|Information} template explains the date field is for "Date of creation, when the original source (such as photograph of 3-D scene, digital file, or original 2-D artwork) was created". In my opinion, in case of most photographs form "2009-12-10" is preferable to {{taken on|2009-12-10}}; however you might have a case when you are photographing a sculpture and would like to provide date of creation for the sculpture and for the photograph, and then {{taken on}} might be handy. As for {{other date|circa|1935}} and {{circa|1935}}, they are exactly equivalent as they both call module:Complex date. I usually do not like multiple templates that provide exactly the same functionality as they just add to the confusion, and my bot might have been converting {{circa}} to {{other date|circa}} years ago, but at this stage both templates are with us to stay. Historically {{circa}} begone it's life as shortcut for {{other date|circa}}, which become it's own template in order to fix "expansion depth limit" problems, but now both templates are just an interface for module:Complex date. --Jarekt (talk) 12:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Then I will stick 2009-12-10 rather than {{taken on|2009-12-10}} and {{circa|1935}} rather than {{other date|circa|1935}}, on the theory that simpler is better. I wish people would stop screwing with them once I do this, though. - Jmabel ! talk 15:06, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

What does the template int:wm-license-artwork-artist etc mean in Template:Artwork? and more[edit]

The Naturalis museum i work with as a wikipedian in residence would like a new comprehensive data ingestion template for a natural history museum (so plant/animal species, books/journal articles, and art about plants and animals must be catered for). I am in doubt whether i should imitate Template:Shipwreck or Template:Artwork. Shipwreck has a separate /layout file, Artwork works with - to me - arcane templates like int:wm-license-artwork-artist which produces the nice blue field name - i can't find the source template for this, probably dumb of me, so i can't adapt it to new variables. Can expert(s) give me some advice? also on the whole business of making such a template elegantly? Thanks a lot, kind regards, Hansmuller (talk) 10:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

PS. I tried out some at User:Hansmuller/Naturalis, Template:User:Hansmuller/BioHist and User:Hansmuller/BioHist Hansmuller (talk) 10:40, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
int means transclude from mediawiki namespace plus some translation magic based on user preference. See mediawiki:wm-license-artwork-artist and mw:extension:WikimediaMessages (the "why" is kind of complex and involves some historical and technical factors). Bawolff (talk) 12:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
By the way, the "source code" for mediawiki:wm-license-artwork-artist is at [[3]]. There is some explanation of "int:" at Help:Namespaces. --Jarekt (talk) 12:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


Why does {{CC-BY}} redirect to {{cc-by-1.0}} instead of {{cc-by}}? The problems with the {{cc-by}} template also apply to {{CC-BY}}. --Stefan4 (talk) 14:05, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Image question with possible problems in background[edit]

I would like to accept the permission statement for File:Liran Dan.JPG

but I am concerned about the background image. I know about the concept of de minimis, but this may not qualify.

One option is to request that the uploader crop the image, if the goal is to provide an image of the subject. Another option is that we could do it ourselves.

The current use of the photo doesn't seem to require the background, so cropping might even be helpful. However, I'd like some feed back on best steps forward.--Sphilbrick (talk) 15:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

There is way too much focus on the background for this to be de minimis. The man is not even in the middle of the picture. If we need a picture of the man, then the picture needs to be cropped so that most of the background goes away. --Stefan4 (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Stefan in that it isn't DM, based on my understanding of COM:TOO#Israel that the threshold is somewhat higher than the UK but still lower than the USA, which affects three of the background images. I'm guessing that about two thirds of the file needs cropping away. Green Giant (talk) 23:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

May 22[edit]

OpenOffice Document made by myself[edit]

I would like to upload a Organizational Chart made by OpenOffice programme, but i can't able to do (It seems Commons doesn't allow ".odp" files). My programme is available in these format: odp, odf, sxi, sti, ppt, sxd, uot, odg, . What ot those is the most appropiate?. --Ravave (talk) 18:39, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

OpenOffice Draw supports SVG export, which is a good file format for such graphics and allowed on Commons. --rimshottalk 22:52, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. I use Open Office Calc to create images, and then copy and paste them into Paint, to publish them as a png, but I can in fact copy and paste it into Open Office Draw, which creates an svg that looks sort of okay in the browser, but is not rendered at all here. See File:Swansons-law.svg. Totally trashed, but if you click on it it looks fine, well sort of - it is not formatted very well, but at least the legends are not all bunched up in one corner. Delphi234 (talk) 00:44, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
"Clicking on it" means that your browser's subsystem or chosen program for handling SVG displays it, which is different for different people. There are incompatibilities between the generated SVG file and the RSVG program which I fixed... AnonMoos (talk) 01:38, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Is there an easy way to fix them? For me it was an interesting exercise but not a very useful tool, unless there is an easy way to make it compatible with RSVG. Delphi234 (talk) 02:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
I mainly eliminated the multiple redundant x-coordinate values in text positioning specifications. They're of very limited usefulness unless you know with 100% certainty that the SVG-displaying program will use exactly the same font as the SVG-creating program (not the case here), and the "RSVG" software used on Commons chokes on them... AnonMoos (talk) 04:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much to you. You have been helpful. I just uploaded as PDF format and now is free. If you want to use on Wikipedia, go ahead!. --Ravave (talk) 08:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

However, PDF files thumbnail as JPEGs, and it's often difficult to control PDF-file margins. AnonMoos (talk) 04:29, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Just throwing this out here: Export as PDF and use pdftosvg. This will probably export the text as curves, but I will look exactly like the PDF (which will look exactly like the OpenOffice document). --Dschwen (talk) 04:02, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
pdftosvg -- Rillke(q?) 20:42, 29 May 2015 (UTC)


Is preview not working? I updated a file, but there was no preview. The file uploaded fine, but I rely on preview to make sure that I selected the correct file. Delphi234 (talk) 23:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Preview appears to be back now. Delphi234 (talk) 02:46, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

May 23[edit]

animal sounds![edit]

As best as I can tell, these aren't in Commons: [4] -- cc-by-sa animal sounds from the Museum fur Naturkunde in Berlin. An uploading project? -- Phoebe (talk) 02:43, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Notification of DMCA takedown demand - A village in Gandaki, Annapurna Range, Nepal.jpg Takedown[edit]

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the WMF office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#A village in Gandaki, Annapurna Range, Nepal.jpg Takedown Thank you! Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 08:04, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Uttar Durgapur ,Shyampur , Howrah submited by Totan Nandi[edit]

village name - Uttar Durgapur , post office of vill. -Uttar Durgapur , Police Station -Shyampur Police Station , Name of Block of this vill. - Shyampur (II) , Nearest picnic spots -Gorchumuk (58 gate /attanna gate ) & Gadiara , Temples of vill. - Sitala Temple , Shiva Temple , kali Temple etc. School of vill. - Durgapur B.A. High School (H.S.) & Durgapur Boys Primary School & Durgapur Girl Primary School etc. Market of village- Joi Guru Market . Grame Panchaet Member - Gopal Gayen , Ideal Teacher - Pranab Mondal , Brilliant Student -Sumana Hazra , Shabani Hazra , Supriti Bera , Sourav Hazra , Sushobhan Nandi , Shantanu Hazra etc. Ideal Bisness Man -Sukumar Santra , Engineer -Koushik Nandi , TV Channel - Durgapur Cable , Tali Karkhana - Hazra Brothes , doctors - Uttam Das , Swapan Das , Club - Durgapur Jajabar Sangh , Boul Singer - Dibakar Sen , Dances - Bulet Gayen , Subhankas Das , Mastar Sanjay , Samnath Bag , Monatosh etc. Rabindra Sangite Singer - Pampa Chakrabarti , writer of boul song - Dibakar Sen & Sushobhan nandi . Commiunity organization - Durgapur Mahila Samiti. Submitted by Totan Nandi. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totannandi55 (talk • contribs)

What do you want to tell us by this? --Túrelio (talk) 09:46, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


Wrong language, please rename category. -2A02:810D:27C0:5CC:19D:4544:A304:BFC5 13:16, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

✓ Done Thibaut120094 (talk) 15:47, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

May 25[edit]

There should be a anti-pornography project of some sort on Wikimedia Commons.[edit]

Note: I am not talking about images that have arrows pointing to parts that have text stating the names of those parts, I do understand that they are allowed on wikimedia commons. But, what I am going to be talking about are images that do not.contain text and do not show any educational significance.

There are images if one searches genetal or mammilary parts, that do not have arrows and text.showing theire educational significance. Now I do understand if there is just one image like that I can understand I does have some sort of educational purpose since one can clearly be able to understand it from a clear unarrowed or texted image, but when there are multiple different images of it with no arrows or texts depicting the parts of it, it evidently.states that it was uploaded for non educational purposes. Multiple images like these almost count towards phonographic images, which according to the rules of Wikimedia commons, is not allowed.

This is the reason why I am suggesting there is a anti-pornography project in Wikimedia commons, where the projects purpose is to find these images and alert admins or higher account authority to remove those images, and warn the phonographic up loaders about the wrongs that they are doing.

I hope that this is taken under consideration. Thanks in advance. From the friendly, Doorknob 747 (talk) 23:59, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

We should certainly delete all files which are illegal under United States law, and not allow multiple redundant low-quality drunk cellphone penis selfies to accumulate. However, pornography is not actually outside of Commons scope in all cases. See Help:Sexual content etc. AnonMoos (talk) 04:50, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
It should be made much more clearer on what they consider uneducational and educational on non low res pics, if you search "vagina" you will find countless numbers of images, but, you may find multiple images that are exactly or look exactly the same. What I really mean is that, it is OK if there is one of each of those types of different types of images that you can find, but, then there should not be multiple of them. Example, if there is a image of a vagina taken upside down and an image taken side ways of the same person, one of those images should be deleted since they are showing the same thing. There is no educational purpose of uploading images that are similar to images that already exist in here. From, the friendly Doorknob 747 (talk) 18:08, 26 May 2015 (UTC)  :)
We very rarely have too many images. There is nothing wrong with multiple similar images, unless it becomes excessive, such as low quality penis selfies. It would not be good to delete an image just because it was taken in a different orientation - someone might want to use one, someone else the other one. I would not be concerned about multiple similar images unless it got into the hundreds. I think that the only image that we have of Type IV FGM is not even a woman, for example. Delphi234 (talk) 03:41, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

May 26[edit]

no catagory for Us currency.[edit]

I did not understand hot to use hot-cat or the other gadet so I dicided to use the other old fashion gadget "visoual editor" to add cataegoireies. I added "pennies", "Us currency", and "stack of coins"; there are no categories for images that relate to US currency, from my understanding, but I my be wrong. If I am wrong can someone tell me the correct category names so I can correct them. Thank you in advance. From the friendly Doorknob 747 (talk) 00:52, 26 May 2015 (UTC) 😃

Something like that normally falls into two (or more) category trees, such as one to indicate the country, which would fall under the "Economy of XXXX" group, the other to indicate what it is, in this case coins. Did you see the group of categories here? Category:Coins by face value Facevalue 1 includes the category for one US penny, which is at Category:United States cents‎. Delphi234 (talk) 02:36, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Doorknob 747 (talk) 18:18, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Pennies have never been a US currency, so I don't see why you would have added it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:03, 26 May 2015 (UTC)


There are a few new crat candidates at Commons:Bureaucrats/Requests if you're already not noticed. Jee 06:17, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Bureaucrat Bonanza[edit]

As is customary when requests are made for advanced rights, I'll add this notification that two more nominations were made after Jee's announcement. This brings us to a total of 7 nominations:

Regards, --99of9 (talk) 00:35, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Font changed in (some) user boxes?[edit]

Is this only me seeing these two user boxes in different fonts?

Wikimedia logo family Village pump is the unique login of this user for all public Wikimedia projects.
Wikimedia logo family complete-2013.svg This user has created a global account and the main one is on Commons.

(I’m using Monobook.) -- Tuválkin 16:49, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, it went away now: Both boxes showing Monobook’s default again, not Vector’s. -- Tuválkin 16:51, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

May 28

6,000 files missing permission[edit]

I'm not sure how we best handle such situations, but there is one in Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Files from the Seoul Metropolitan Fire and Disaster Headquarters. I think that it is also a good idea to mention this at the village pump since it affects quite a lot of files. --Stefan4 (talk) 14:21, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Necessito de Ajuda Pois Duas Fotos Minhas Foram Eliminadas e as Outras Estão em Análise[edit]

Necessito de Ajuda Pois Duas Fotos Minhas Foram Eliminadas e as Outras Estão em Anãlise[editar] Eu tirei as fotos de patrimônios históricos e públicos da cidade de Ilhéus e de outras regiões e dois usuários solicitaram eliminação imediata dos seguintes arquivos : File:Morro de Pernambuco Ilhéus Bahia.JPG e File:Baía do Pontal - Ilhéus Bahia 1.jpg . E solicitou aviso de eliminação dos seguintes ficheiros se assim a comunidade permitir após análise : Affected:

Os usuário que solicitaram foram: Yours sincerely, Yann (Discussão) 19:26, 28 May 2015 (UTC) e Achim (Discussão) 19:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Solicito uma revisão, pois essas fotos foram retiradas por mim e necessito uma resposta de qual o motivi do pedido de eliminação ?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Max Muller Dos Santos Bispo (talk • contribs)

  • I'm trying to understand: is your site, or someone else's? Because the blog says its editor is Paulo Paiva, and that seems to be where the deleted images came from, and your name here is nothing like Paulo Paiva. - Jmabel ! talk 22:54, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

May 29[edit]

The Atomium: copyright law.[edit]

I was looking for a picture of the Atomium (a structure in Belgium) and found that none existed on its English Wikipedia page. Then I learned that all photographs of The Atomium are automatically copyrighted according to Belgian law. However, they are not according to U.S. law.

I noticed a concerted campaign to | delete all photographs of the Atomium from both Wikipedia (where such copyright strictly does not apply as Wikipedia follows US copyright), and Wikimedia Commons, where such copyright as exists in Belgium may not apply to images posted here.

Wikimedia Commons copyright policy is that an image must be allowable in both the country of origin as defined by the Berne Convention, and in the U.S., and possibly other countries involved.

A US person taking a photograph of the Atomium could be said to have their "art" originate from their country of origin, if they post this work in the US. Even if they don't, some recent case law says non-US persons posting their works to US servers make the US the country of origin.

Thus, it seems clear to me that if a photograph of the Atomium is put on a US server, or if it is published by a US person on US soil, its country of origin would be the US, and thus allowable under Wikimedia Commons copyright policy. In any case, it would be allowable under any circumstances under Wikipedia copyright policy.

Assuming that there is no debate regarding this, what can be done to make sure that new photographs of the Atomium posted on Wikimedia Commons or at least on Wikipedia are not repeatedly deleted? (or, at least, moved to Wikipedia) --Agamemnus (talk) 19:45, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

In case of sculptures and architecture we always need to think about copyrights of 2 people: the sculptor/architect and the photographer. Both of those copyrights must be allowable in both the country of origin and in the US. A US person taking a photograph of the Atomium maybe can claim country of origin as US, but the architect's country of origin is still Belgium as you say there the work is copyrighted. --Jarekt (talk) 20:11, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Isn't this (considering both the architect and photographer) a concept of Belgian copyright law, rather than US copyright law? --Agamemnus (talk) 20:43, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Hmmm. But the country of origin of the Atomium as an artwork in itself is obviously Belgium and every picture of it would be a derivative work thereof, which at the very least makes the situation more complicated. Also it seems questionable to me whether the Atomium would qualify as a building rather than an artwork/sculpture under US copyright ("intended to house individuals", see Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#United_States) … --El Grafo (talk) 20:21, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Let's say that it is artwork, for the sake of argument. A photograph of a (copyrighted) 2-dimensional artwork would definitely have copyright restrictions in the US, since otherwise the concept of 2D artwork copyright would be meaningless. But photos of 3-dimensional artwork, displayed in a public space? I do not see how it can be restricted under US copyright law... --Agamemnus (talk) 20:53, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
It's restricted because it's not explicitly allowed. Please read the whole section of COM:FOP I linked above: There is an exception for architecture in US-law, but none for artworks such as sculptures even if permanently installed in public places (unless they're old enough to be free because of age). --El Grafo (talk) 21:12, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Copyright law in the US does not work by exclusion. Photos of buildings are explicitly excepted from copyright issues, but if 3D artwork is not explicitly excepted, it does not mean that the copyright of derivative work automatically belongs to the owner of the copyright of the artwork, nor that such a copyright for derivative works can be even assigned. This section you cited actually mentions Gaylord vs. The United States, 2008, which involved the US Postal Service selling a stamp depicting a photo of Mr. Gaylord's Korean War sculpture. The court found that the United States did not infringe on Gaylord's copyright of the artwork. The court did say that the building exemption doesn't apply to sculptures, but the plaintiff asserted that reproductions were owned by him as well, and the court did not say this was the case. --Agamemnus (talk) 22:00, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Let me add that I see that this was overturned by the US Court of Appeals in 2010, and the court found that it was not fair use. In neither case however is there an affirmative stance that the photos themselves are copyrighted by the author. --Agamemnus (talk) 00:17, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Hopefully this will become a thing of the past, if Julia Reda's report is accepted. Highly unlikely, but we can dream can't we? Green Giant (talk) 21:15, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

May 30[edit]