Commons:Village pump/Archive/2022/04

Wiki Loves Folklore other years

Hello!

The 2020 pages of Wiki Loves Folklore gives access to other years, but 2021 and 2022 do not.

Old versions also gave access to the meta page.

Could someone correct it if needed ?

Thanks in advance. SGlad (talk) 17:44, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

a VERY SPECIAL THANKS to the "rename file" person / people

I am On. My. Arse. Whoever has just this minute (or nearly, time for me to find this here page and to write this) renamed the 31 files that I have uploaded these last few days, has floored me. This is about the maps in here : Category:Atlas mineralogique - Guettard 1780, where I realized only about 1/2 hr ago that I should have indicated their numbers (doh) in the title, so that they would be found a lot more easily according to the general map - with numbered map outlines - which is the last one I found in the book i was copying from (my one and only excuse, weak) - duly numbered 0. I was on semi-automatic renaming for the whole series, so going sort of fast; someone of the renaming team picked up half-way and it was all I could do to keep ahead (so that the dude would not go to another job before I could finish). Now it's all tidy and in order, easy finding. Very very grateful, esp. as I thought I'd have to wait a few days. I don't know where nor how to give a big medal but that one sure deserves it. Brilliant. THANK YOU, whoever. Pueblo89 (talk) 19:42, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

That would be User:Wieralee, and probably my mention of them here will get their attention, but if you want to thank them more directly you can to to their user talk page or I believe that it you look in the history for any given file, you can "thank" for any given edit. - Jmabel ! talk 02:17, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Inquiry re: an apparently deleted file

While browsing a category, I noticed this photo was missing. After a little bit of digging, it appears it was deleted but I couldn't find anything in the logs. Was there a specific reason why it was deleted or are we continuing to indulge every deletionist with a wild hair up their butt?RadioKAOS (talk) 20:16, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

@RadioKAOS: Hi, and welcome. File:30th Reunion. (7569089518).jpg was deleted as one result of Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Images by umnak.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 01:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Questioning when the personality rights tag is relevant...

A {{Personality rights}} tag was added with this edit.

WMF projects are a learning experience, for all of us. There may be some obvious reason why this tag would be useful, here.

But it was not obvious, to me, so I asked for an explanation at File talk:Ingrid Vanderveldt speaks at Dawson College - cropped.jpg#Could you please explain.... I pointed out that Ms Vanderveldt was invited to give that talk, by members of the US State Department, who arranged for a photographer to snap pictures, of that talk. I questioned whether that left any doubt that she had consented to having pictures taken.

I pinged the person who placed the tag. They didn't return to explain their tag. I don't think they are going to do so.

Am I free to remove this tag?

When is this tag actually useful and relevant? It is scary, alarming, with its warning that re-users may be legally required to contact the original photographers, and get them to confirm the people depicted signed a legal release. However, it directs people to Commons:Country specific consent requirements, which seems to say very few countries provide protection to having one's picture re-used.

Singapore and the Netherlands are two of the countries that have legislation that may require a release. Okay, when does that legislation apply?

1. Does it apply if the image was snapped in one of those countries?
2. Does it apply to any image taken by a citizen of Singapore, or the Netherlands, even if they took it somewhere else?
3. Does it apply to all images used on the Dutch wikipedia?
4. Does it apply whenever a person living in Singapore or the Netherlands adds a picture to a wikipedia, even if it is not the Dutch wikipedia?

If these are the only kinds of conditions where the tag is relevant, then it seems to me it should be used very sparingly. Geo Swan (talk) 15:01, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Geo Swan: Really, personality rights apply to every picture of an identifiable person. In the U.S., personality rights for a public figure mostly come does to limits on using the image in a way that implies them making an endorsement of some sort. Theoretically, we could add that template to pretty much any picture of a person; in practice, we tend to add it where there might be a valid concern that the picture would be misused. But there is no implication that the picture was inappropriately taken. - Jmabel ! talk 17:26, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
  • Re-using images of people, in ways that implies they endorse positions, or products, they do not actually endorse? I think we all understand this is (1) intellectually dishonest; (2) disrespectful; and (3) a bad idea, that could expose the dishonest re-user to legal retaliation. Honestly, isn't this something (1) every potential re-user should already understand; (2) something it is pointless to warn people about, because people dishonest enough to pull this stunt will ignore those warnings? Geo Swan (talk) 23:27, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
    • @Geo Swan: You'd think so, but I've definitely run into people in jobs where they certainly should know better who don't understand the difference between copyright on the one hand, and other intellectual property rights on the other, and who think that the CC-BY or similar license means they can use the picture absolutely any way they want to. - Jmabel ! talk 01:45, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
      • Over here, a tourist bureau took a photo of a person ice-fishing on a lake and published it in their brochure. Distance was long enough that the person wasn't directly identifiable, but the court decided that people who know him would recognise him from the context, and judged they had used his image for promotion without his permission. They had to pay damages. The photo could equally well have been found at Commons. –LPfi (talk) 06:44, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
        • There was another case (I don't remember whether the idea was dismissed or whether it went to court), where a party in their campaign was to use an image of a crowd, to illustrate something innocent, like togetherness or whatever. That was also deemed illegal. –LPfi (talk) 06:50, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
        • @LPfi: do you think your examples undermine the idea this tag is helpful or useful?

          Over on en.wiki, WP:NOT tells everyone that project is not intended as a source of legal advice. It seems to me the apparent unpredictability of your court allowing an unidentifiable ice-fisherman to sue for damages exposes the futility of commons offering legal advice. Geo Swan (talk) 08:50, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

          We are not giving legal advice. We only warn reusers that they should not use images of identifiable people without checking up on the issues. I think my examples show situations, where somebody might think it is a good idea to use a file from Commons, when they rather should pay for one that comes with a release. These images are still useful in many contexts. Thus I think we should have the warning. I also want the warning on photos I have taken, to relieve me from some liability would somebody abuse them. And I don't think "our court" is unpredictable: if you want persons in images to use for promotion, get their permission! LPfi (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

          • @LPfi: , I don't think tagging your own images provides you with one iota of extra protection from legal liability. If your use of an image, here, is legal, and properly licensed, I am sure you have no liability if it is subsequently used illegally. And, ff you fell for a flickr-washing, or otherwise uploaded an image that wasn't properly licensed, how do you see a {{Personality rights}} tag protecting you? Geo Swan (talk) 23:15, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

            I have licensed my photos for use by others. If they think I have licensed them for any use (which would mean I have got a legal release), then I may be partly culpable. If their thinking so is deemed reasonable, that would mean I have misled them. LPfi (talk) 12:53, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

      • @Jmabel: , Here are the first twenty images that transclude {{Personality rights}}. I told the individuals who placed those tags I'd appreciate them explaining themselves, as those images include images of Patrick Stewart, George W. Bush, Mariah Carey, four guys playing cards, and some other completely innocuous images... [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

        Two of those images are of groups of happy children. Yes, I know there are contributors who worry over pedophiles, out there, who might mis-use even completely innocuous pictures of children. But is a personality rights tag an effective response to that?

        The remaining images are of fetish models. Clarification please. Would it be your position that images of fetish models are the kinds of images "where there might be a valid concern", based on the theory that some fetish models are likely victims, not willing participants? But is a personality rights tag an effective response to that?

        What about Ingrid Vanderveldt, the woman in the image that triggered my question. I really can't see her as an individual whose image would trigger a particular concern. Do you?

        The Patrick Stewart image was tagged by an anonymous contributor who added personality rights tags to about one hundreds images of Star Trek actors, and other celebrities, in July and August of 2009. That is not all they did. They also added half a dozen FOP tags. I am concerned this IP contributor was a block evader, who used other IP addresses to frivolously add the tag to thousands of images. Geo Swan (talk) 10:18, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

        Please remove your questioning the tags. The tag is there to remind reusers that images of people may not be used without proper consideration. It is OK to use them to illustrate e.g. education in Afghanistan, but it is not necessarily OK to crop out a face and use it in some fun collage. A high-profile politician must accept some less nice use of his image, but there is a line also for them. If there is an identifiable person in an image and you are not the photographer or uploader, leave those tags alone. If it was placed there by the uploader, leave it there also for that fisherman seen at a distance – he was still the main subject of the photo. LPfi (talk) 16:48, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

        I am one of person mentioned above by Geo Swan. I also agree with LPfi: please remove your questioning the tags. Yann (talk) 18:07, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I continue to question whether the tag is routinely being applied meaningfully. @Yann: , Jmabel assured me the tag was applied selectively, only to images of particular concern. You applied it to the two images of Mariah Carey that I put first in the gallery, below. I remain curious as to why you thought this tag was relevant there.

Applying this tag non-selectively, to every image of every one of the ten million or more images we have of individuals is an absolutely terrible idea. It would be annoying to readers. It would be a pointless waste of time, for those applying the tag. And, most importantly, it would strongly erode the utility of the project's image pages.

People naturally tune out stuff that wastes their time, or doesn't make sense...

When I was an undergrad, 40 years ago, computer users used command line interfaces, not the pointy-clicky interfaces popular today. My day-job required me to use a big, stupid IBM CMS command line interface. Off-the-clock I used a UNIX shell. Habit got in my way. I routinely tried to invoke a program from one system, while using the other system. I noticed I was far from the only one. I wrote a UNIX program, kind of like busybox, and I linked to it using the name of every CMS program. When invoked it would look up the name it was invoked under, and advise the user, "Argv0 is a CMS program, but you are on UNIX. Try mumble instead." - where mumble was the roughly equivalent UNIX program. It would then call a program that printed the synopsis section of the manual for that program.

I thought this was a good idea, until I saw Dave actually use it. I saw Dave type in the name of a CMS program. I saw my program tell him that wouldn't work, because he was using UNIX, and telling him the alternate program to use. Then, because it was only a PDP-11/34, there was a pause as the synopsis program was invoked.

I thought this was going to be my moment of triumph. I thought I would see Dave follow the instructions produced by the synopsis program, and successfully invoke the program he really needed.

Instead he turned to me, and said, "Geo, how do I invoke the mumble program?" And when I pointed to the synopsis, on the screen, he said, "Oh that. It seemed cryptic, and not useful, the first time I saw it. So I always just tune it out."

We should not encourage this warning to be applied to every image...

And adding the vaguely alarming, yet cryptic, {{Personality rights}} tag to every single image of an individual or individual(s) would have the same deeply negative value here. It would be an annoying aspect of every page, which experienced readers would soon learn to ignore.

Annoying stuff people ignore is not just a waste of time. Our information pages contain important information. And I suggest it is bad for the project for it to be obfuscated by alarming stuff our readers will ultimately ignore, because it is cryptic.

To the extent this tag has utility, it would only have that utility if it were used rarely and selectively, on images of particular concern.

From the first twenty transclusions of {{Personality rights}}

Raymond explained he only added it to images he uploaded, but he added it to every one - a different justification than Jmabel's selective application to only images of particular concern.

Palosirkka justified putting the tag on the image of men playing cards because he thought they were (1) drinking, and (2) gambling - activities some people disapprove of. Geo Swan (talk) 22:34, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

@Geo Swan I do not add it to everyone. Normally to my own images depicting peope only. Raymond 05:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

The personality rights template is correct in its warning on most images that include identifiable people. If it is too scary, then we need to tone it down (in appearance, wording or whatever). Perhaps the licensing templates should be smaller also (I have never understood why they need to be so dominating). Where do you think the template is needed? Would we need a separate template for those cases? –LPfi (talk) 16:35, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• I don't understand your statement that only two countries seem to have legislation that may require a release. In the table, every one of the fifty countries have such legislation. The release is needed only in some cases, which is why these photographs are useful on Commons also without a release. I also do not see from where you got that you'd be "legally required" to contact the original photographers, and get them to confirm the people depicted signed a legal release. I for one don't have people sign such releases when I take photos. I hope reusers will respect privacy rights even if they use my photos in a jurisdiction where that is not required. –LPfi (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2022 (UTC)
• {{Personality rights}} is not legal advice at all. It can not, as international laws on what you may or may not do with someone else's photograph differ vastly. It's pretty much the opposite of legal advice – a disclaimer telling the average Joe on the internet: "When we say that this file is OK to be used for any purpose, we mean that from a copyright perspective. When it comes to figuring out your national personality rights laws, you're on your own."

The second purpose of the template is to signal to any professional media person "Sorry, we we don't do model releases". (Model releases are absolutely essential for publishing pictures of people in some parts of the industry and completely irrelevant in other parts. The Wikipedia article is pretty bad, here is some more useful information. The closest thing to a model release we have is {{Consent}}.

We have a bunch of similar templates that give re-users a heads up like "This file is fine in terms of copyright, but there are other aspects that may make it illegal for you to use. Check your local laws." {{Currency}}, {{Trademarked}}, {{Nazi symbol}} are some examples. I know, en.wikipedia doesn't do disclaimers, but we do, and so do many other projects.

What the template admittedly fails to communicate clearly, is who it is talking to when it says "you". It is not immediately clear that this message is addressed at potential re-users, not the photographer or uploader. That should probably be rectified. Other than that, it should in my opinion be added to any image containing an identifiable person. --El Grafo (talk) 10:25, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. I agree completely with El Grafo above. Noting to add. Yann (talk) 18:07, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

rename file

Ineed to replace incorrect file name. How to do?

Add "{{rename|new filename|3|reason}}" to the file description page. The parameter "3" is for "obvious errors" (see Template:File renaming reasons/i18n) and "reason" is whatever rationale you have for the name needing to be corrected. –LPfi (talk) 06:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

If the file is a new upload of yours, you can use "1" (original uploader’s request) instead of "3". –LPfi (talk) 07:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

@Eitan f:  : check if you have the "Move" button ( click "More", upper right, on the right of "View", "Edit" and "History"). Move = rename. Pueblo89 (talk) 19:48, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry LPfi if you got a notification for a call from here, had tagged you a {{notif|LPfi}} after reading the history page wrongly. oops. Pueblo89 (talk) 19:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

That's OK. In fact it got me to try the move entry (in another place and differently named for me, but easy to find), and it is much more helpful than the raw template (which annoyingly doesn't have the reason numbers on its documentation page). I will advice people to use this in the future. –LPfi (talk) 13:01, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

How should I upload new emojis?

Twemoji is a CC-licensed emoji font developed by Twitter. Previous versions have been uploaded to Commons in Category:Twitter Emoji. But version 14 has recently been released, so there are 487 emojis that aren't in Commons yet. I'd like to upload the latest version, but I'm unsure of what the best way of doing it is.

• Should I do what's been done in the past, and upload all emojis when a new version comes out? If I do it this way, there would be a lot of duplicates from previous versions, so that seems pretty wasteful, but at least there would be consistency.
  • This would also let me use a new file naming scheme. I've been wanting to change the filename format to something like File:Twemoji14 😀.svg instead of the currently used File:Twemoji12 1f600.svg. It would be much easier this way since you could just type the emoji instead of looking up its codepoint.
• Should I only upload new emojis? This would prevent duplicates, but would cause a lot of problems when actually trying to use these files because you would have to look up what version the emoji you want to use is from.
  • For example, one might try to use File:Twemoji14 1f600.svg, but it wouldn't work because that particular emoji was only uploaded in a previous version, File:Twemoji12 1f600.svg.
• An in-between solution would be to upload all of them once under a common naming scheme, and then in future versions only upload new ones.
  • This new naming scheme would be something like File:Twemoji 😀.svg. This filename does not reference any particular version, so it would work for any version going forward.
  • A drawback of this approach is that if an emoji is not new but is changed, you would have to overwrite the old version.

What do you guys think is the best approach? Saucy (talk) 03:34, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Saucy: It looks like Nikki has already started uploading Category:Twemoji v14, so my comments here may be a bit late, but here they are nonetheless:

• You can't use names like File:Twemoji 😀.svg because at present characters outside the Basic Multilingual Plane aren't generally allowed in Commons filenames.
• We generally have a rule that duplicate files can be speedily deleted (COM:DUPE), so there's not much point in uploading emoji that haven't changed since the previous version.
• If you want a file to be accessible under multiple names, you can create redirects. But you still can't include emoji in the names of redirects.
• If I were doing this from scratch, I'd include the name of the emoji in its filename (so File:Twemoji 1f600 grinning face.svg), but I think it's too late for that now.

I hope that's at least slightly helpful. --bjh21 (talk) 18:02, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Commons:Placing images

After Dcoetzee was banned, the page hasn't been updated; I think it's a nice counterpart to COM:REUSE but could use some improvement (illustrations/diagrams maybe?). Arlo James Barnes 20:18, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Commons, free licence and "All Rights Reserved"

I saw that File:Жовна зелена (Picus viridis).jpg is marked in the EXIF info as "All Rights Reserved © Sergey Ryzhkov". Despite all the other licence tags, it's status as FP or any other signs that this or any other files by the uploader may is or is not a copyright violation I wonder if a file uploaded to Commons should have such a claim in the EXIF info.
I could understand if it's just the camera's default setting and that exactly this copyright mark is put into every image and is never changed by the used software. However, all files on Commons have to be available under a free licence. There is no chance to upload even a part of an image that stays on here as just "All rights reserved". Unlike with CC NC and ND licences, there is no option for a file to bee freely licenced as well as being "All rights reserved". Also looking toward sharing content outside of Commons and Wikipedia such an entry could hinder it's use - which is (at least as far as I recall) exactly what Wikipedia and Commons were not created for. For an external use, it also could make licencing unclear in the future.
An example how I handle this part: Many and all my recent files are tagged with "Licenced under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 licence by D-Kuru from Wikimedia Commons. See https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en for detailed information about the licence."
@Ryzhkov Sergey: Can you please drop a line where this entry comes from and what your ideas on this topic are?
--D-Kuru (talk) 21:42, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

If I would guess I'd say that it is indeed simply the camera settings and it might be that it's standard that it adds "All rights reserved ©" regardless of what the author wants, this license gets added before upload, so when someone uploads they waive all (or some) of their rights, in this case the EXIF data then simply illustrates the historical license prior to upload. I don't think that this EXIF data is problematic if re-users can be made aware that the license in the EXIF data might differ from the reported license above, perhaps we can update the standard notice at "Metadata". --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:49, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

What does such an "all rights reserved" mean legally? Is it left in photos delivered to a publisher who has bought the rights to publish an image? Then it probably is just a wordier way to say "©"? That © is implicit when not mentioned and true for all non-PD works. –LPfi (talk) 11:39, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

"All rights reserved" was phrase commonly used under the Buenos Aires Convention to indicate that the creator retained the right to control the copying of a work. This is true even for works under a CC licence, since it's that right that allows the copyright owner to impose BY and SA conditions. Creative Commons caused a lot of confusion by using the slogan "some rights reserved", and Flickr made it worse by using "all rights reserved" to indicate files not under a CC licence, but I don't think that means we should treat "all rights reserved" as being incompatible with a CC licence. --bjh21 (talk) 20:25, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

East Asian curios

Is there an appropriate category or categories for a shop like this on in Seattle selling East Asian curios? This one is from the 1890s, but shops like this were pretty common into the late 20th Century, and there are still some now. - Jmabel ! talk 01:12, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

The best one I can come up with is Category:Asian shops in the United States. --Rosenzweig τ 13:32, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Rosenzweig: Thanks. Helpful. I've now used that, and I'd be open to a subcat. - Jmabel ! talk 14:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

There are a number of shops like this in Los Angeles's Chinatown, though most of their stock seems intended for Feng Shui. I mean, we can't classify the images by function because we can't assume what the customers of these stores want (curios, Feng Shui, art collection, costumes for parties, etc.). I think that subcats by country "Japanese shops in the United States" etc. are useful if that info is available for the image. Downtowngal (talk) 16:40, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Renaming large cat tree: Panoramics

PSA: i intend to close Commons:Categories for discussion/2018/02/Category:Panoramics by renaming the cat tree to "panoramic photographs". this will affect a large number of cats. please raise any opinion on the cfd page. RZuo (talk) 09:59, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@RZuo: it looks like you closed this 27 minutes before posting that you intend to close it.

FWIW: I hadn't noticed the discussion. I'm not strongly opposed, but it seems a big change for no big gain. - Jmabel ! talk 14:47, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Unhelpful mediasearch

some newbie is asking how to delete his/her uploads on help desk, so i wonder what happens if i type delete in the search bar. clicking the prompted option, it leads me to a mediasearch result page of "delete". no! that's not what we intended! delete redirects to a help page which could be useful for newbies. clicking the prompt in the dropdown from search bar should go to that page! RZuo (talk) 10:20, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I have MediaSearch as standard search and I get sent to help:... However the page is not really helpful for newbies, more for people, who already have an idea how commons works. Something like the tutorial in UploadWizard would be a better redirect page. --C.Suthorn (talk) 11:22, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Results from the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement guidelines ratification vote published

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

More languages • Please help translate to your language

The Trust and Safety Policy team published the results of the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement guidelines ratification vote. The vote ended 21 March 2022. See the results and read more on Meta-wiki.

Best, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 11:43, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Deleting File:Pushkar Singh Dhami.jpg

I have uploaded a file File:The Chief Minister of Uttarakhand Shri Pushkar Singh Dhami on August 11, 2021.jpg few months ago. It was a government work from PIB. But now it has beeen deleted. I want to restore the file. It was derived from File:The Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi at the inauguration and foundation stone laying ceremony of multiple projects, in Dehradun, Uttarakhand on December 04, 2021.jpg. Somebody please help. --Junior Jumper (formerly Tæ) 15:42, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

 Comment Related DR: Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Pegash. Yann (talk) 15:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Category for Package Express or Parcel Post?

I haven't been able to find a category for the concept of package express/parcel post. That is, packages, usually boxes smaller than furniture, sent by individuals to be transported by bus, other vehicle or airplane, and delivered to the individual or a representative. I suppose that shop-by-mail packages could be included, though the historic photos are generally individual to individual. Examples are File:Taking packages to Express Office LCCN2014688662.jpg and File:HTS Systems FedEx Express parcel driver.JPG . The category is at the intersection of w:Packaging and w:Freight transport. The photos, I repeat, illustrate the concept of "package express"; they aren't just photos of the packages or the transport vehicle. Should I create this category, and if so, use the term "Package express"? Thank you for your input. Downtowngal (talk) 16:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Read-only time for Commons on 7 Apr 07:00 UTC

Hi all,

As per the latest tech news issue, Commons will be a read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of the main database. It will be performed on 7 April at 7:00 UTC. Just wanted to mention it here separately in case the tech new information got missed out.

-- Kaartic ^[talk] 20:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Correction of typo

Is it possible to correct the spelling of the first word of the title of the following uploaded image to Wikimedia by adding an s after the second letter? My apologies for being a nuisance. Hopefully it will not be too difficult to correct as presumably typos do occur occasionally.

'Dicussing strategy'. Oil on canvas. Signed and dated 'FM Bennett 1932' (lower right).jpg BFP1 (talk) 12:37, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done :-) Lotje (talk) 13:46, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I could not understand the recommended way of fixing things BFP1 (talk) 16:21, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorry if I did not explain it well enough, but the word should be 'Discussing' not 'Dicsussing'. BFP1 (talk) 16:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your help BFP1 (talk) 08:57, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

City Nature Challenge 2022

Not sure if this is the right venue for this sort of announcement, but our nature photographers might be interested in https://citynaturechallenge.org/. RoySmith (talk) 14:59, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Sort keys of "... by ..." cats?

what's the convention on the sort keys for cats like "people by city"? is it "[[cat:people| by city]]" or "[[cat:people| city]]"? RZuo (talk) 18:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

• @RZuo: Insofar as there is a convention, the latter. I've never seen the former. - Jmabel ! talk 00:19, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Please can someone delete Category:QWESTION for me, I misspelled it

Hi all

Could someone delete Category:QWESTION for me? I misspelled Category:QWSTION (a Swiss fashion brand)

Thanks very much

John Cummings (talk) 19:39, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done

:This section was archived on a request by: Jmabel ! talk 20:08, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

png and jpg vs. svg

Someone wrote a great essay about why we should save the png/jpg file when we convert something to an svg file. They pointed out that the conversion, or redrawing, can lead to subtle changes, like changes in color and we need the original for comparison. Does anyone know where it is, I can longer find it, and I want to link to it from my user page. --RAN (talk) 18:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I vaguely recall reading something like that after following some links from category:SVG Simplified, but I can't remember where precisely; perhaps @Sarang: knows? Anyway, many rsvg bugs have been patched over the years, so some of those complaints may be less valid now. Arlo James Barnes 15:56, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I remember that the interesting discussion was formed over a bug, however, I will not agree about the complaints being less valid now. The complaints were surely posted in the end of march 2022. The discussion was on the main Commons:Village_pump page, albeit about a little down. However the discussion just vanished, BUT the discussions I remember that was posted before the great essay was indeed still accessible!

What happened, I remember that there was archive bot wipe out, but it didn't have this great essay in the edit history.

Mystery.

I remember something vague: if you found out a raster image converted to SVG and you delete it even if the PNG version is uploaded, there will be disappointment from the people who had followed links that were linked to the raster-SVG before the SVG was deleted.

I remember this crystal clear: He still have and had incidents that he himself encountered a link after following that basically said "the file is deleted". (my opinion: would a special delete template work that says a raster PNG version of the much-more-problematic raster-SVG is present here" VScode fanboy (talk) 04:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Arlo Barnes: Sorry, i cannot remember that I ever read about that saving. As a matter of fact, normally the raster image is not longer needed when a good SVG is created; keeping it for comparison is one aspect, another one is that all file links like e.g. {{Based}} or {{AutVec}} will give red links when the raster is deleted. -- sarang♥사랑 13:08, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

VFC - visual file change

How can I change/add/edit (specifically) file description Source, Author, Permisson, int:license-header, Category? For multiple files, in one go. I do not find any simple help/guide. And I have not enough time to learn reg-exp. Any info is appreciated! --Janwikifoto (talk) 03:04, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Once you have selected "custom replace" and entered a regexp, VFC displays an addditional input line for regexps. I.E. you can enter multiple replacement commands in the VFC UI. --C.Suthorn (talk) 07:17, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Would anyone have like a cook-book recipe? I do not know much about Reg-exp, and I do not really have the time to learn and experiment... Anyway now I understand that each repace-regexp should do one thing, and you add many replace-regexps to do many whings. --Janwikifoto (talk) 12:11, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@Janwikifoto: If the string you are trying to replace is a constant string, you don't need regex at all. Just type the string. Regex enters the picture when you need to make more complex substitutions. - Jmabel ! talk 15:21, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Are these maps already at the Wikimedia Commons?

I found this page which claims that this website has a large library of free SVG maps. It states its license as "You are free to use our SVG maps for personal or commercial use.". I suspect that some (or hopefully all) of these maps are already here, but I can't seem to find a category for them, are they already here? Or is the license not compatible? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:50, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

IANAL but I think in theory it's a compatible license, but in practice takes a lot of effort to improve each file to get around the non-bundling clause. Arlo James Barnes 16:13, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikitext (layout) for Commons differs from WP

Consolidated at Commons:Help desk#Wikitext (layout) for Commons differs from WP. - Jmabel ! talk 17:24, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Jmabel ! talk 17:24, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Dealing with violation of COM:CSCR

Hi,

I think that File:Kim Beazley and Daniel Pocock.jpg is in violation of COM:CSCR, and I am not sure where/how to signal it. There is 3 people on the picture, but I see no trace of their consent being asked for commercial usage, and given the uploader history of using pictures from the web and uploading as their own, I do think consent need to be verified. Does anyone know what to do in that case ? --Misc (talk) 19:14, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Aren't these public persons at a public event? Then I assume they had no expectation on privacy, and no expectation that the pictures taken would not be published. Commercial reuse might be subject of permission, but that is a non-copyright restriction for the reusers to deal with. I don't see why the photo couldn't be used in the right context, such as an article about the "campaign for native title rights", whatever that might be. –LPfi (talk) 19:48, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I do not know if all of them are public persons. en:Kim Beazley is, by virtue of his position, no doubt about it. The 2 others, I am less sure, especially since we have only 1 name and 2 persons. And if commercial reuse requires permission, doesn't it contradict the license (CC-BY 3.0), and/or shouldn't it be signaled on the page somehow ? Misc (talk) 20:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Misc: If you really find this concerning, you could tag it with {{Personality rights}} (and probably explain why on the talk page). However, that's a non-copyright restriction. - Jmabel ! talk 21:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Usually the CC licences are thought to only apply to copyright. While there is also some wording, at least in some of them, where the licensor waives some other rights, the licence is usually only from the photographer, not from those photographed, and thus it cannot waive any of their rights. For many use cases you need the permission of those photographed, and that's why we have the template Jmabel linked. There is nothing special with the linked file, compared e.g. with those in Category:Men facing left and looking left in the United States. –LPfi (talk) 15:05, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

• Commons:Country specific consent requirements#Australia is unclear on this. If the hypothesis is that such an image would need a CC-nc licence or similar (and so is not FREE for Commons), the CSCR page doesn't say why, or give references that we can study in detail. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:09, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

  Is it forbidden to take and licence an image if somebody might afterwards use it illegally? I don't think so. When you license your photo with CC-BY-SA you do not license any personal rights (other than possibly your own); you assume reusers will respect the law and seek permission if needed for their use of it. The NC, if not included in the copyright licence, is a non-copyright restriction, regardless of whether there actually is such a restriction. LPfi (talk) 07:25, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

First unicode of each writing script?

i'm creating a new catTOC template and looking for the first unicode of each script. i was looking at list of Unicode characters but the list is incomplete from arabic onward. :( any help is greatly appreciated! RZuo (talk) 23:00, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@RZuo: I think you can derive this from Scripts.txt in the Unicode Character Database. --bjh21 (talk) 23:05, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

awesome tip! thx a lot! then i found wikt:Appendix:Unicode based on your tip. RZuo (talk) 23:32, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

whats a wikt? VScode fanboy (talk) 06:48, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Shorthand for linking to Wiktionary. --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:18, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

cannot change the wrong geocoding in the structured data

I want to correct the wrong geography data in the structured data of this file, but could not change it. It should be

Camera location	34° 42′ 46.35″ N, 135° 29′ 47.78″ E	View all coordinates using: OpenStreetMap

. What should I do?

--トトト (talk) 09:55, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done The data has been successfully changed today. --トトト (talk) 00:12, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

MultilingualCategoryTOC

i just made {{MultilingualCategoryTOC}} (1.0 version) to make jumping thru non-ascii parts of super large cats a bit easier. example usage: Category:All media needing categories as of 2022. most link texts are "internationalised", meaning you will see their names in your UI language, rather than a preset one. please feel free to improve it. i will work on it, too, but probably a long time later. RZuo (talk) 21:54, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Hide email address

If I create an account with my email address, will the email be publicly visible? My email address can be traced to my real name quite easily, so I don't want it public. --99.197.202.188 17:26, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

No. Even if someone uses your user page to send you an email (a facility which you can also disable), they will not see your address, until and unless you reply to them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Or if mail delivery fails, the mail address gets exposed to the person who sent the wikimail. --C.Suthorn (talk) 16:57, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

That would perhaps be a big issue. However, it seems that only the Reply-To field points to the user mailing you, so any delivery error messages would go to a WMF address and thus be harmless. The only remaining issue that I can see is that your e-mail address would be stored at WMF servers, allowing technical staff to view it. They will hardly abuse the possibility, but they might be forced to hand it over to US authorities in some cases. –LPfi (talk) 08:09, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Fishing industry / Commercial fishing

Right now Category:Fishing industry and Category:Commercial fishing are each other's subcats. I'm inclined to make Category:Fishing industry be the parent; does anyone think that is wrong? - Jmabel ! talk 23:14, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

For me "Commercial fishing" should be the higher cat. Catching 10 fish and selling them is commercial fishing but not an industry. --GPSLeo (talk) 07:07, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

As a fisherman you'd still be part of the fishing industry (e.g. in statistics about a country's economy). The question is what sense of "industry" is intended. "Industrial fishing" would be a clearer name of the subcategory. –LPfi (talk) 07:38, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. You could even say that the people printing the labels for the tin cans your sardines come in are part of the fishing industry. El Grafo (talk) 11:09, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Something along the lines of that last from El Grafo is why I think Category:Fishing industry should be the parent. Fish processing ships, too. Though, arguably, we could also merge "commercial fishing" and "fishing industry" and say the distinction isn't a useful one. Anyway, I will make Category:Fishing industry the parent; if someone wants to change it around I won't argue, but please no loops. - Jmabel ! talk 14:50, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Photos with insufficient information

I regularly come across a photo of a person where the description is so general or even absent and there's nothing special about the person to give it a meaningful category. It is therefore not useful for use by others. For example File:EU Market Acces Manager.jpg. The user has uploaded many of such photos and I have asked for more information. In general, what to do with these kinds of photos if there is no accompanying information? Wouter (talk) 14:43, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

If they are personal photos that are not used by any Wikimedia project, feel free to nominate them for deletion. Such images are most likely not in the COM:SCOPE. De728631 (talk) 15:42, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

@Wouterhagens: je spreekt waarschijnlijk Nederlands? Er werden door deze gebruiker heel wat afbeeldingen opgeladen. Waarschijnlijk allemaal van een medewerkers van een of ander advocatenkantoor in Nederland. Advertising? Misschien het doornemen waard. Cheers. Lotje (talk) 16:34, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes @Lotje: , an office in Amsterdam. Wouter (talk) 07:05, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

In this case there is some information available: at least name, employer, position. That makes it useful as an example of Dutch lawyers in the 2020s presenting themselves in that role. Maybe we have a load of other such photos, I don't know, but I'd assume not. I agree that when we cannot get that kind of information, the usefulness is doubtful, but many "personal photos" can be used to illustrate specific clothing styles or whatever – given that somebody is able to categorise them sensibly. –LPfi (talk) 07:33, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

• We also need stock photos of random people, for the same reason that stock-photo companies are able to sell the, people need them. --RAN (talk) 12:29, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

I've seen a few of those pictures and I don't see a reason to say that they are lawyers or in the Netherlands. So at the very least, file names are misleading. I agree that they could be kept as "random" people. Very random: male/female human being with this/that look. By the pictures it cannot be stablished whether they are lawyers, policepeople, strippers or a combination of these and other professions, living in the Netherlands or any other place. I'm no technician so they might even be digital constructions (has anybody checked that?). These pictures are more of a problem than help. B25es (talk) 14:21, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

• • The portrait linked above seems to be from the same photo session as that used at the company's page presenting their staff (same clothes, same facial expression). Otherwise I don't think you could tell. If you want to see what Dutch lawyers looked like in the 2020s, the file is more useful with the information than as a random person. –LPfi (talk) 18:47, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Does a "random people" category fall within Wikimedia's policy? I think the educational aspect is hardly there and the application for commercial activities is the most important.

I don't know how the search goes with stock-photo companies, but I myself would find it important to be able to select people by gender, age and all kinds of things regarding appearance (skin color, clothing, jewelry) and posture. And of course the quality of the photo. As far as I've seen these things are rarely listed as a category. Viewing a categories like "Unidentified men" with more than 30.000 files is not easy. Hence my question whether it makes sense to create a category for "random people". Wouter (talk) 19:28, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

The metadata from the image has different contact information for the photographer as stated by the uploader ("Niels" is someone else than "Remko"). This needs VRT Verification at the least, especially if the images have been published elsewhere previously. Ciell (talk) 19:43, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes. And there is an ongoing request for deletion. Mail to COM:VRT is needed, regardless of user name: there is no need for a Niels to call themselves Niels on Commons, and a User:Niels needs not be the same Niels. –LPfi (talk) 09:57, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Wich type of train?

This has a more rounded form than the Alstom LHB Coradia LINT in Denmark, so it must be something else. I cant find a similar picture in Denmark.Smiley.toerist (talk) 13:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

@Smiley.toerist: That's a Siemens Desiro. De728631 (talk) 13:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. The trains of Lollandsbanen now needs ETCS when going to Nykøbing F but the IC2 trains used so far don't have that. In order to solve the problem the railway owner Lokaltog has rented three Siemens Desiro from Nordjyske Jernbaner. The trains also got the new design of Lokaltog while they were at it. The dots in the design symbolizes the municipalities and regions owning the public transport agency Movia, the majority owner of Lokaltog. --Dannebrog Spy (talk) 14:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Community Tech Bot notifications not enabled on all Wikimedia websites

I saw an image that was widely used on hundreds of Vietnamese-language Wikipedia articles that was nominated for deletion but not in a single case did the Community Tech Bot notify a single page, do some Wikimedia websites opt out of this service or is it an opt-in service that they have to register for? -- Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:46, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

I also don't see this bot do this at the Dutch-language Wikipedia and the German-language Wikipedia. Is it exclusively for the English-language Wikipedia? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 07:48, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

@Donald Trung yes, currently this bot is running this service for English Wikipedia. You may contact @MusikAnimal: for further details —MdsShakil (talk) 09:29, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Movement Strategy and Governance News – Issue 6

Issue 6, April 2022Read the full newsletter

Welcome to the sixth issue of Movement Strategy and Governance News! This revamped newsletter distributes relevant news and events about the Movement Charter, Universal Code of Conduct, Movement Strategy Implementation grants, Board of trustees elections and other relevant MSG topics.

This Newsletter will be distributed quarterly, while the more frequent Updates will also be delivered weekly. Please remember to subscribe here if you would like to receive future issues of this newsletter.

• Leadership Development - A Working Group is Forming! - The application to join the Leadership Development Working Group closed on April 10th, 2022, and up to 12 community members will be selected to participate in the working group. (continue reading)
• Universal Code of Conduct Ratification Results are out! - The global decision process on the enforcement of the UCoC via SecurePoll was held from 7 to 21 March. Over 2,300 eligible voters from at least 128 different home projects submitted their opinions and comments. (continue reading)
• Movement Discussions on Hubs - The Global Conversation event on Regional and Thematic Hubs was held on Saturday, March 12, and was attended by 84 diverse Wikimedians from across the movement. (continue reading)
• Movement Strategy Grants Remain Open! - Since the start of the year, six proposals with a total value of about $80,000 USD have been approved. Do you have a movement strategy project idea? Reach out to us! (continue reading)
• The Movement Charter Drafting Committee is All Set! - The Committee of fifteen members which was elected in October 2021, has agreed on the essential values and methods for its work, and has started to create the outline of the Movement Charter draft. (continue reading)
• Introducing Movement Strategy Weekly - Contribute and Subscribe! - The MSG team have just launched the updates portal, which is connected to the various Movement Strategy pages on Meta-wiki. Subscriber to get up-to-date news about the various ongoing projects. (continue reading)
• Diff Blogs - Check out the most recent publications about Movement Strategy on Wikimedia Diff. (continue reading)

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 09:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Is this an abuse?

Hi. I saw a file (File:Gifgifbaump.jpg) that may be copyright violation, but more importantly it seems the page it is used is some kind of backlink builder (see links to gifgif.ir). Is this an abuse? HeminKurdistan (talk) 18:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Yann (talk) 19:14, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Help creating a template

Hola. I'm trying to make a template for the municipalities of Cantabria similar to Template:Autonomous communities of Spain, but I can't get it to work.

If someone can take a look at it and tell me what's wrong that would be great.

The template is thisː Template:Municipalities of Cantabria And I have tried it in the articlesː Santander, Torrelavega y las cateroríasː Category:Torrelavega, Category:Santander. Juenti el toju (talk) 20:07, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

You omitted the second part. Ruslik (talk) 20:35, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Second of what? VScode fanboy (talk) 09:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Of the template. Ruslik (talk) 20:46, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Photo challenge February results

Villages: Entries • Votes • Scores

Rank	1	2	3
image
Title	Hohndorf im Frühling. Erzgebirgskreis, Sachsen 2H1A0954WI	It rained constantly on Peyreleau, 74 inhabitants	Seitengasse in Gordes, Bergdorf im Departement Vaucluse, Provence.
Author	Kora27	Celeda	Michael.F.H.Barth
Score	12	11	9

Pipe organs: Entries • Votes • Scores

Rank	1	2	3
image
Title	Detail view of the pipe organ in the northern aisle of Speyer Cathedral	Organ in the Memorial Church in Speyer	Orgel. Kirche in Wildbach, Sachsen 2H1A3852WI
Author	F. Riedelio	Kmtextor	Kora27
Score	9	8	6

Congratulations to Kora27, Celeda, Michael.F.H.Barth, F. Riedelio and Kmtextor. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:20, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Charnel house

I was surprised by the article about charnel houses.

Charnel houses in England were separate hospital buildings exclusively for tuberculosis cases. They were typically single storied with large widows and verandahs. When I was a medical student at Broadgreen Hospital, Liverpool (when it was the regional cadiothhoacic centre) there was one preserved in the grounds. At that time the term charnel house refered to these buildings, I have never heard the term applied to an ossiary. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 2.97.221.88 (talk) 03:40, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I assume you were reading Wikipedia in English; perhaps you want to discuss the issue there (on the article talk page or on a suitable village pump subpage). On Commons we have Category:Ossuaries and the explicit Category:Tuberculosis hospitals, while Category:Sanatorium (the word we use here in Finland) seems to be used for a rock in the Polish Jura. –LPfi (talk) 07:19, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

New Video and Audio player will change in your wiki very soon

Hello,

Next week we will change the software that lets you play audio and video files on your wiki from Kultura to Video.js. With this change, the old player won’t be accessible anymore. The replacement of the player has been active as a beta feature since May 2017.

The new player has many advantages, including a better design, consistent look with the rest of our interface, better compatibility with browsers, the ability to work on mobile which means our multimedia will be properly accessible on iPhone and Android, better accessibility, and many more.

The old player has been unmaintained for eight years now and was custom for MediaWiki (unlike the new player which is a widely used open source project) and uses old, slow, deprecated, and abandoned frameworks such as jQuery UI. Removing the old player’s code also improves performance of the wikis for anyone visiting any page (see this blog post). The old player has many open bugs that we will be able to close as invalid after this migration.

The new player will solve a lot of old and outstanding issues, but will also have its own bugs and missing features. All important known ones have been fixed, but there will be some small ones to tackle in the future, after the rollout.

What we are asking now is to turn on the beta feature for the new player and let us know about last-minute any issues.

You can track the work in T100106 and read more information about the new player on this page: mw:Extension:TimedMediaHandler/VideoJS_Player

Thank you, Amir (talk) 18:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Join the Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan conversations with Maryana Iskander

More languages • Please help translate to your language

Hello,

The Movement Communications and Movement Strategy and Governance teams invite you to discuss the 2022-23 Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan, a plan of record for the Wikimedia Foundation's work.

These conversations continue Maryana Iskander's Wikimedia Foundation Chief Executive Officer listening tour.

The conversations are about these questions:

• The 2030 Wikimedia Movement Strategy sets a direction toward "knowledge as a service" and "knowledge equity". The Wikimedia Foundation wants to plan according to these two goals. How do you think the Wikimedia Foundation should apply them to our work?

• The Wikimedia Foundation continues to explore better ways of working at a regional level. We have increased our regional focus in areas like grants, new features, and community conversations. What is working well? How can we improve?
• Anyone can contribute to the Movement Strategy process. Let's collect your activities, ideas, requests, and lessons learned. How can the Wikimedia Foundation better support the volunteers and affiliates working in Movement Strategy activities?

You can find the schedule of calls on Meta-wiki.

The information will be available in multiple languages. Each call will be open to anyone to attend. Live interpretation will be available in some calls.

Best regards,

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 09:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Is it okay to harvest public domain media from Britannica?

I was looking for something like this sample of round hand calligraphy when I realized that, now that Britannica is ad-supported instead of subscription-only, we could conceivably get a lot of very useful public domain media out of it. While I'm sure that's okay for a this single image, how do people feel about a larger effort to get media we lack on the projects? 71.204.166.188 14:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The current Britannica is not public domain, it is merely publicly available. Most content on the Internet is not in the public domain.

Old enough editions of Britannica are public domain. For example, the famous Eleventh Edition (1911) is indeed in the public domain. - Jmabel ! talk 14:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't mean the text, I mean the pre-1923 media files it includes. 71.204.166.188 19:49, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

If an image was first published in the U.S., and that was no later than 1926, it can be uploaded here, using {{PD-US-expired}}. Are there a significant number of those in the online Britannica that we don't already have? - Jmabel ! talk 22:48, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

How do I upload/license an image file that I have been given permission for?

There is an image (photograph) on a website, which is not an image sharing website like Flickr and hence it doesn't state any licenses. However, I have asked and have been personally given permission by the photo's author to use the image freely for Wikipedia. How do I go about using this image, and where do I state the permission if necessary? --Morita Akio (talk) 20:28, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

@Morita Akio: either of two ways:

• If the site in question is clearly controlled by the copyright-holder, then they can indicate a specific Commons-compatible license on their site, and you can reference that as the source of permission.
• The copyright-holder can send email granting a specific Commons-compatible license, as explained at COM:VRT. - Jmabel ! talk 22:51, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Jmabel: . I have gone through and read COM:VRT and have followed instructions with the intention of telling the copyright holder to use the VRT release generator. However, I did a sample generator to check and in one step it says: "The email should come from an email address that we can recognise as associated with the content being released." In my case, the copyright author has their image not on their own website. So how can the author prove identity with only a personal email address possible? --Morita Akio (talk) 00:33, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Morita Akio: I leave it to the Volunteer Response Team to sort that out. I'm sure it is not unprecedented. - Jmabel ! talk 00:50, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Template:De minimis: Ukrainian translation

There needs to be a translation of that template in Ukrainian as not all people in Ukraine understand English. The language code for Ukrainian is uk. Please create a Ukrainian translation of that template to improve accessibility.--173.63.147.150 22:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

What's the word for this view?

• 
• 

they're not cat:skylines because the outlines of buildings dont cut the sky. they are not aerial photographs. they're not panoramas because the aspect ratio is not wide. where do we put them? RZuo (talk) 04:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Cityscapes? General views? No native speaker here. Strakhov (talk) 05:52, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest Panoramics in Gran Canaria. Note that the main category Panoramics is now a redirect to Panoramas. Wouter (talk) 14:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

These are not panoramas or panoramics as they show an insufficiently wide angle. The relevant definitions in Wikt:panorama and Wikt:panoramic are "An unbroken view of an entire surrounding area" and "with a wide view". These files should be in a subcategory of Category:Landscapes, and possibly also in a subcategory of Category:Remote views. Verbcatcher (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

thx everyone! i found cityscapes, too, after posting this. i think that's something close enough.--RZuo (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --RZuo (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

How can I add a category to a template?

I would like to add Category:Sculptures in the Netherlands by decade to Template:SculpturesNetherlandsDecade. The purpose is that all categories using this template automatically get Category:Sculptures in the Netherlands by decade as a parent category. How can I do that or would somebody do it for me? I tried to do it my way (see history of the template), but then this category ended up as a parent category of the template instead of in the categories it was meant for. --JopkeB (talk) 13:17, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

your edit (and Jmabel's) was correct. it takes time, a purge or a null edit for the cat pages to refresh.--RZuo (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Your should have used the <includeonly></includeonly> construct. Ruslik (talk) 20:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Jmabel, RZuo and Ruslik, for your contributions. The addition of Ruslik did really do the trick, it was (automatically?) implemented in all the involved categories. This item/question has been solved. --JopkeB (talk) 03:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --RZuo (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Where in Cologne in 1989?

I suspect close to Köln Hbf.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Deutz? https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=50.941620156871&lng=6.9710294630021&z=17&pKey=877049296209475&focus=photo --C.Suthorn (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I suspect the picture is taken from the eastside of the Hohenzollernbrücke from the footpath.Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:17, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I suspect this is taken from Bahnhof Köln-Hansaring, but not certain

Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:17, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

HEIF

Is there an upload bot that automatically converts HEIF files to JPEG or PNG files whilst keeping exif data?-Lallint⟫⟫⟫Talk 00:25, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

@Lallint: Hi, and welcome. Sorry, no, I'm not aware of such a bot. We only accept files with free formats and encodings, and with extensions listed at COM:FT.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 10:10, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

If you're using Mac, you can use the builtin Photos app to export images to jpg/png. -FASTILY 22:13, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Or (on Mac) open it in Preview then File->Duplicate which will create a new copy and File->Save and the dialog to say where and filename also has a format selector near the bottom. PsamatheM (talk) 19:38, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Are there any graphic diagrams on this site?

I see lots of photographic images but no scientific diagrams. I'm looking for diagrams of plant and especially lichen anatomy and life cycle. Any suggestions? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nick Mirro (talk • contribs) 22:15, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nick Mirro: Category:Lichens - botanical illustrations, Category:Life cycles. - Jmabel ! talk 22:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

@Nick Mirro: Start at Category:Diagrams about science. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:23, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Wrong name for a Shanghai building?

Impacted are: Category:Shanghai Futures Building and the attached Wikipedia/Wikidata entries.

It appears Shanghai Futures Building is not the name of this building, but Shanghai Pudong Customs Building. The Futures Building, which is also called "Futures Tower," seems to refer to a different building but in the same city.

• https://www.emporis.com/buildings/104066/shanghai-pudong-customs-building-shanghai-china
• https://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=15726
• https://www.emporis.com/buildings/103955/shanghai-futures-building-shanghai-china
• https://www.skyscrapercenter.com/building/shanghai-futures-tower/2076

The Google satellite maps (despite having some inconsistency between satellite and map overlay) seem to confirm this.

Help and validation/confirmation from Wikipedians/WikiCommon users from mainland China may be needed. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 03:10, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

The characters on the sides of the building (visibile e.g. here) form the calligraphic part of the China Customs logo (like in the middle section of this image. As I see it, Wikipedia/Wikidata and the Commons category are all correctly linked and correctly describe the Futures Building (31.2279°N, 121.5304°E). It is just the images that are in the wrong category and should be recategorised under a new category like Category:Shanghai Pudong Customs Building (31.2398°N, 121.4942°E). --HyperGaruda (talk) 08:06, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

@HyperGaruda: I'll do such file category transfers. The file name of the main file must be corrected too, through a rename request. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 12:57, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done making such actions. Hope the image title gets corrected ASAP and that images of the real Shanghai Futures Building will be uploaded here soon. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I found a few indirect images of the Futures Building, but a more prominent composition would indeed be most welcome. --HyperGaruda (talk) 02:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Q re appropriate use of Structured Data

I've edited images here for a long time, but seldom get involved with Structured Data. However, today this edit caught my eye. Is Structured Data an appropriate place to record a chunk of an actor's filmography? Seems to me this editor gets a little carried away. -- WikiPedant (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I've trimmed them down to only have a statement about the image depicting Chris Meloni.

@Dliesergee: Thanks for adding structured data to files. However, there is no need to be so detailed. The point of structured data is that everything is linked together. By saying the image depicts Chris Meloni, the background information that he is an actor, that he played Elliot Stabler and that he was in various productions are all provided in the Wikidata. For depicts statements, you should only say what is in the file that you can see. In this case it is the person, Chris Meloni, not the character. Feel free to ask on this page, at the help desk or at Wikidata if you are not sure on which statements to make. From Hill To Shore (talk) 23:48, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Missing categorizations of files

as of today, there are 1,449,722 files with do not have a single category assigned (Category:Media_needing_categories). There were concerns in the same matter in 2015 already. Are there any ideas how to eliminate this high amount? --Mateus2019 (talk) 08:12, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

We could prevent Hotcat from removing the last visible category, or at least have a "did you intend to remove the last visible category" prompt Oxyman (talk) 08:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. It would also be helpful if there is a category where instances of the removal of the last category are included. This especially against vandalism. I've been going through Media_needing_categories systematically for a number of years now. On average 5-10% of the images can be assigned a category and in a number of cases the image can be placed in a Wikipedia article and Wikidata page at the same time. That's what motivates me to do it. But there are also a lot of images that I don't think are worth further use (blurred, ugly selfies, too small, no file name or description from which you can tell where the shot was taken or what it represents). My policy is not to nominate bad photos for deletion because that requires extra work that could be put to better use. I don't put bad photos of unknown people in general categories like "men" or "women" because that shifts the problem. Another problem is when bulk uploads have taken place and landed in a Media_needing_categories page in one day. For example Category:Media_needing_categories_as_of_22_May_2021. In those cases, all thumbnails on a page are sometimes only visible after 10 times a reload of the page. That problem has been discussed in the Village pump before, but there is nothing that can be done about it. I'll skip those pages. An improvement would be if that can be spread out to a maximum of 600 images per day. Wouter (talk) 09:30, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I think that those that carry out bulk uploads have a working knowledge of this project. So they know the existence and use of categories. So they can be expected to use categories. Otherwise they shouldn't be allowed to bulk upload files (that is, to bulk increase the work of whoever is trying to put some order in Commons).

Of course, I can understand that a casual user that happens to upload a few files for the first time in their life, they cannot be expected to be perfect. I can understand that. It's not the case with mass uploads. B25es (talk) 16:00, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

What also adds up are the photos of the various campaigns. For example Category:Images from Wiki Loves Earth 2019 is mentioned as hidden category, but many images do not have a non-hidden category. Wouter (talk) 16:18, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

It would be useful if someone (or a bot) could identify any of those images which are used in Wikipedia articles, Wikidata items, etc. Those would be among the easiest to categorise.

Note also that there are an unknown number of false positives - images which are categorised, but are also in subcategories which are themselves categorised as being for images with no category (example: File:Работа не волк... (494813189).jpg, in Category:Queue for categorisation (Skhakirov)). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:48, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

That of the bot is a very good idea. If the bot is clever enough, it can even add the categories (with the addition "check categories") in the following situations. In the wikipedia article is also the commons category mentioned or the image has a wikidata P180 value. In that case the category can be found if it exists (which is not likely) or may be a category can be found using the P106 (profession) value in case of people. The question now is how can this be organised, who will do that? Wouter (talk) 07:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I am working on a bot request, but it will take some time to find sufficient different examples that the bot should be able to handle. I will mention it here when the request is ready. Wouter (talk) 16:45, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I did the request. See here. Any suggestion is welcome. Wouter (talk) 13:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• I also note that there are a number of files which have 'a' category which is really just the source (see File:Aquila (1966) - DPLA - 65321694a69114d9202579941e3678cf (page 101).jpg) that need actual categorization. Looking by source, you have a closer geographic profile and time space so I suggest people consider attacking things that way rather than just the random images. For example, a bot could easily break down Category:Media contributed by The Portal to Texas History and its subcategories into the various newspapers if not the year as well. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation gallery pages?

i kinda remember that the consensus is that we refrain from creating disambiguation pages in the main namespace. is this correct? i found 14 existing pages and i plan to remove the dab.--RZuo (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

• @RZuo: Yes, they are rarely a good idea. But when removing them, do make sure to add {{Distinguish}} or some such to gallery pages where someone could land on the gallery page for one subject intending another. - Jmabel ! talk 00:31, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

  thx! i was creating {{Look from}}. given dab are not normally used in main ns, i made the template specifically for cat pages only. for the existing dab pages, i'll convert as many as possible. RZuo (talk) 03:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

  • @RZuo: {{Look from}} may be a good idea, but I think you will find that at times it is not what you want. Sometimes the "key" phrase is not the first words of the name, and sometimes there is no chance of confusion based on the first words of the name. Examples: (1) no one is going to type "Seattle" meaning the book Seattle and the Orient; (2) if we had a gallery page corresponding to Category:Seattle City Light it is more likely someone would confuse that with one called "City Light" than one called "Seattle". - Jmabel ! talk 14:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

it's for something that's impossible or ridiculous to list all meanings, including even the trivial (only locally important) things. for example: cat:linda. i omitted everything other than the people's names and locations.--RZuo (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Need massive renaming

In the Category:Capitania Muntanyesos 2022 I've uploaded a lot of pictures of an event. Unfortunately, I made a mistake in the name and need a massive rename. All the categories are properly written, but in the name I need to change Capitania Mora MMXXII - XXX.jpg, where XXX is the number, to Capitania Cristiana MMXXII - XXX.jpg--TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 18:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

All done. --Didym (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Very grateful.--TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 07:50, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --RZuo (talk) 12:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Batch upload of the new version of existing files

Is there any way to upload the new version of files in a batch fashion? I once uploaded many images in Category:Noto Sans Caucasian Albanian, then I found a way to improve the images but it would be tiresome to upload them one by one. I know how to operate Commons:Pattypan to upload new files in a batch fashion but not to upload the new version of existing files. Ekirahardian (talk) 20:26, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

It is possible, if the batch uploading tool has a "ignore warnings" setting. If you upload a file and the filename exists already at commons, the server will send a warning "file exists" to the upload tool. Also you need to fill out the "description" for the revision upload, but it will be ignored by the server. Only the "comment" field will be shown as upload comment (for example "uploaded new revision with better resolution"). --C.Suthorn (talk) 21:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Sadly I don't think Pattypan has that kind of setting to ignore warnings, is there any other tool that has that setting? Ekirahardian (talk) 21:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Commons:Command-line upload --C.Suthorn (talk) 22:15, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll try to learn the python script to do so. Ekirahardian (talk) 22:23, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Ekirahardian (talk) 22:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC))

Why I see this image in French only when I click on it ?

planètes du système solaire.

Hi,

Someone know why the French labels of this image appear only when we charge it ? I asked the question on the French Bistro, but nobody answered. - Simon Villeneuve 18:55, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Simon Villeneuve: do you want something like this?--RZuo (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Simon Villeneuve: I don't understand your description, but this type of problem can be related to the need to purge cached copies of an image, see Help:Purge and the equivalent Wikipedia pages w:en:Wikipedia:Purge and w:fr:Aide:Purge du cache. Verbcatcher (talk) 20:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there a way to see French labels on the picture? To me this looks simply like a plain English version. There has only been this one version of it, so I don't think there is a cache of an earlier one. --Enyavar (talk) 21:13, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Are you asking for someone to debug your SVG coding? I am unfamiliar with SVG syntax, but I have used a text comparison tool to compare the French version with the Dutch version in File:Planets2013 nl.svg (which does work), and they differ in more than planet names. Verbcatcher (talk) 22:16, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I think I now see what you mean. The PNG preview displayed in File:Planets2013 fr.svg and in its 'other resolutions' links show the planet names in English, but when I click on the 'Original file' link in a Chrome browser the planet names are in French. However, if I click on 'Original file' in the Edge browser the planet names are in English. On another computer both Chrome and Edge show the file in English. This indicates that the SVG rendering software on Commons interprets this file differently from one of the Chrome browsers. This might be a bug in the Commons rendering software, or it might be invalid SVG code that is processed differently by different rendering software. To report a software bug see Commons:Bugs, but even if this is a bug it would be a good idea to avoid the relevant SVG syntax. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:40, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

There are many problems here.

First, the file has a large, embedded, JPEG image. That image is large enough that all the systemLanguage attributes occur after the first 256kB; after that length, MediaWiki software stops looking. Consequently, MediaWiki believes the file is monolingual and does not offer a "render this image in (language)" dropdown. I can force the French version to show with

Second, the file File:Planets2013 fr.svg is not just a French version of File:Planets2013.svg; it has duplicated the many language translations that exist in File:Planets2013.svg. Here is one of the translations in the original file:

Consequently, the French version of the file should be deleted. The French translations should be added to File:Planets2013.svg.

Third, the language that a browser will display the raw SVG depends upon the browser's language preferences. Neither SVG file states it has an English version, but the default is in English. If my browser preferences say I want only English, the English will display because no other langugae matches. If my browser settings say I prefer English but will accept French, then the French version will display French: my browser does not find an en langtag, but it does find the less preferred fr langtag.

Fourth, I suspect another MediaWiki bug that does not offer the render in language dropdown when the file does not have systemLanguage="en".

Glrx (talk) 02:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you all for your answers.
The image (supposed to) have been translated with https://svgtranslate.toolforge.org/ by my student, who send it to me by email after that. - Simon Villeneuve 09:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Simon Villeneuve: When one uses SVG Translate, then the translation should be uploaded to the original file location (SVG Translate will do the upload for registered users). The file should not be uploaded as a new file. SVG adds translations to a file rather than replacing the original text with the new translation. Before commenting, I looked at the upload history for File:Planets2013.svg, but I did not see an SVG Translate upload for French (fr). Glrx (talk) 17:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

There wasn't. I upload myself the work of my students to avoid errors. I didn't know this one. - Simon Villeneuve 17:59, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

User:Glrx has changed the file link in the initial posting in this section, editing another editor's contribution. I reverted and Glrx has re-reverted. For clarity we need a link to the file that was referenced in the first posting, which was File:Planets2013 fr.svg. Verbcatcher (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

E/C Yes, I reverted Verbcatcher's revert. I've made the images link to File:Planets2013.svg; that file is congruent to File:Planets2013 fr.svg. It had the same problems, but the original file has now been fixed (the switch elements were moved to the beginning of the file, French translations were added, and systemLanguage="en" was added to avoid another MediaWiki problem). The description above still has Verbcatcher's link to the OP's File:Planets2013 fr.svg. I requested deletion of the OP file: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Planets2013 fr.svg. If that file is deleted, then the images would be deleted. My revert explained that. I did not edit any of Verbcatcher's comments. See also Simon's comments that the _fr version was intended to be the result of SVG Translate. Glrx (talk) 18:17, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Seattle Municipal Archives had changed its URLs

This section was archived on a request by: Jmabel ! talk 19:00, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Apparently, Seattle Municipal Archives' old URLs that begin with "http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts" are now deprecated and will eventually go away. We have hundreds, probably thousands, of these. I've been in touch with them, and there isn't a neat mapping from the old URLs to the new ones. HOWEVER, I believe that for at least the vast majority of these, we have an "item number" as a link caption in the description (e.g. Item 181384). In some, but sadly not all, cases that item shows up within the URL as well.

After some back and forth with the archivists' office, it would appear that given an item number you can construct a search string in their new system for a search that will give that item as a unique result, and the item number is the only variable in the search string. For the example above, the string is "http://archives.seattle.gov/digital-collections/index.php/Search/objects/search/num%253A181384+AND+ca_objects.type_id%253A23". Sadly, though, that doesn't give you the item page as such, it gives you a search with that item page as a unique result.

I'm trying to work out the best way to proceed. Is there liable to be a workable bot-based approach that can go through systematically, scrape the desired links from their site, and edit our pages accordingly? If not I was thinking the next best thing would be to create a template taking the item number as an input and generating the search URL.

Thoughts? - Jmabel ! talk 21:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I think the old link should be retained in some way, as that is what one can use to find the page as it looked at the time of upload at Archive.org, and for similar purposes. A template to add to these pages would probably be a good solution – if we find a better URL (or the pages move again), we'd just need to edit the template. We should probably add a note (or a link to a help page) to Institution:Seattle Municipal Archives. –LPfi (talk) 10:24, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi: I'm not sure just what would be useful at Institution:Seattle Municipal Archives; do you have something in mind? - Jmabel ! talk 14:49, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

I think that for files for which there is or has been info on the site, but for which that info isn't linked (never was, was removed, or was replaced with a link that is broken or leads to something else than the original), it is useful to tell about changed URL schemes and other ways to find that information, on the site or at Archive.org. The point would be to document the result of your current detective work, somewhere more easily accessible than analysing a bot's edits on related files. The method used now, to rely on somebody at the Pump remembering what possibly was somewhere, isn't optimal. –LPfi (talk) 14:59, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

I've created Template:Seattle Municipal Archives search, which I think is at least part of the solution. If someone who is more experienced with templates wants to refine that, I'd appreciate that. And @LPfi: if you have any idea of something worth doing at Institution:Seattle Municipal Archives, please feel free. - Jmabel ! talk 15:40, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

As the institution page is shown in the file descriptions, I think it shouldn't have too much extra info. I think the template fulfils most of the need. –LPfi (talk) 15:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Using VFC, I believe I've I've now added {{Seattle Municipal Archives search}} with the relevant item number to every file that used the old-style URL and had an explicit item number, so anything that previously let you get directly to the Seattle Municipal Archives database should continue to do so in the future. It is imaginable that something might have been missed (someone other than me might have imported or edited in a way that is incompatible with the regex I used), but assayed a few dozen, and they all looked correct. - Jmabel ! talk 19:00, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Help talk:Interwiki linking

What do you think about my suggested addition for Help:Interwiki linking to make clear that links such as en:Mariopol (instead of Mariopol) are not appropriate in file description pages? --Leyo 13:08, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

i think this is a rather trivial matter and we dont need a formulated rule to direct editors' choice of style.--RZuo (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

File description pages are no the place for editors' choice of style. It's clearly preferred not disturb the text with language acronyms (see e.g. Commons:Picture of the Year/2020/Results). --Leyo 20:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Any views, whether [[:en:Mariopol|Mariopol]] or {{w|Mariopol}} should be recommended? Alternatively, both options may be mentioned. --Leyo 12:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• For English, they are exactly equivalent, and {{w|Mariopol}} is probably easier. However, for other languages, [[:fr:Mariopol|Mariopol]] may be simpler than {{w|Mariopol|Mariopol|fr}}. - Jmabel ! talk 14:57, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

  There is a minor difference in the tool tip: Mariopol vs. Mariopol

  For French, {{wf|Mariopol}} (→ Mariopol) may be used, too. --Leyo 18:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• Clarity is usually more important that elegance, and I sometimes use the w:en:Mariopol ([[w:en:Mariopol]]) syntax to make clear where a link leads. Links should not be surprising, and if a link leads off-wiki it can be useful to indicate this. This is particularly important if the link target is in a different language to the source, it is frustrating to follow a link only to reach a page that is incomprehensible to you. Verbcatcher (talk) 17:27, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Non-neutral description of Ukrainian war photo

In Commons:Deletion requests/File:Российские десантники в бою с украинскими войсками захватили ПТРК и другое вооружение 004.png there is a discussion on whether it is appropriate for a file description to include non-neutral text, on the basis that it is a quotation from the source website. Is there any applicable guideline? Should this file description be edited or deleted? (Pinging Kursant504 and Anahoret) Verbcatcher (talk) 18:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Official war-time images from Nazi-government of Germany (1939-1945) on Commons, provided by the German Bundesarchiv, also carry the original "non-neutral" description, which is expressedly labelled as such. Therefore, I see no problem to cite the non-neutral original description of current mil.ru-sourced images on Commons, provided it is clearly marked as a citation and the source is linked. However, the existance of an "official description" must not exclude the addition of a neutral description in Russian, which should be clearly separated from the official description. --Túrelio (talk) 18:24, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

At your example there is an separate parameter for the original description in the special template. Maybe {{Information}} should also have an optional "original description" parameter. --GPSLeo (talk) 05:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 Support yes, it should! That would be useful in so many cases. All those PD images from the US military for example. Many of them have long original descriptions that are somehow interesting and worth keeping for one reason or another, but at the same time a) inherently biased pro US and pro military and b) fail to describe the image in a way that would be useful for general usage scenarios. Harmless example: Petty Officer Tucker. El Grafo (talk) 13:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

It is in order not to have accusations from users that I am not neutral or support any of sides of conflict, I chose such an order of actions that I simply quote the official source as accurately as possible and do not add anything from myself. Kursant504 (talk) 02:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

If such a discussion has already begun, can I use it to clarify another close question? Is such a category name possible for use [16]? Such "name" is also got from official source [17]. Yes/no and why? Thanks.--Kursant504 (talk) 02:35, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

• It's always tricky for Commons when, in a war, one side uses a name that they other would utterly reject. But in this case: does anyone outside of Russia and Belarus characterize it that way? I think it is probably appropriate that Category:Special Military Operation in Ukraine, 2022 is a soft redirect: usable, but not preferred. - Jmabel ! talk 03:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  But that's what they call it in Russia. Why is Russia worse than other countries and languages? I am from Russia and I can say that in my environment it is called either a special operation or a war. Why are people forced to use other people's formulations? In my understanding, someone wants to call it an "invasion" - let them call it. Others call it a "special operation" - why is their position is worse? Kursant504 (talk) 13:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

  • Because when two countries use one formulation and roughly 200 use another, we tend to favor the latter. - Jmabel ! talk 14:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

• We should not use the majority principle, but should operate on the basis of the normal use of language. This military activity has the characteristics on the English term 'war', so we call it a war. The same probably applies in the Russian and Ukrainian languages. Arguably we should avoid 'invasion' except for operations directly related to crossing the border. Verbcatcher (talk) 15:56, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

there's no need to regulate such descriptions, as long as both sides can add their versions on the page and no edit war ensues.

every sensible person understands "special military operation" is russian newspeak and it means war. people are joking about sanctions against russia by calling it "special financial operation". what's the fuss? it's not like people reading about cat:xinjiang reeducation camps would actually think uyghurs are indeed being reeducated.--RZuo (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

It is about keeping the original description because of there information value. We just should have a standardized way for marking this original description that it does not become changed. --GPSLeo (talk) 17:45, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Search bar problem?

type "Commons:Server-side uploa", no prompt, right? until you type the "d", it finally appears?

i also tried other titles that are redirects, but it seems they could appear before the whole string is typed? RZuo (talk) 17:24, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation categories not working anymore in Hotcat?

Until recently, when I inserted a disambiguation category as a category with Hotcat (?) it presented a drop-down list with the possible valid categories listed in the disambiguation, which was very helpful. That is no longer working for me. Do you know if that is something with Hotcat, or some change anywhere else?-- Darwin ^Ahoy! 23:45, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Can't import file from Wikipedia

I'm trying to import this image [18] which I think must be compatible with Commons using the license {{PDtextlogo}} (the image is just simple text) but after clicking Export to Commons it gives the error "Can't import file because at least one of its file revisions is hidden." What should I do? --Morita Akio (talk) 18:01, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

I believe you intend to use {{PD-textlogo}} rather than {{PDtextlogo}}. However, it is important to note that the logo was created by a company based in Singapore, so the Threshold of Originality for Singapore is likely to apply. The current guidance we have here suggests that we can't accept it on Commons. From Hill To Shore (talk) 18:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes my mistake I meant the former. Thanks for clearing Singapore out, that is fine. On that note I do have another question that I was going to ask here: where can I request contributors to design an SVG vector of an existing logo, such as this Zen logo? --Morita Akio (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Also, I have just discovered that a Zen logo has already been uploaded long ago by someone here on Commons File:ZENlogo.png. If that threshold of originality in Singapore applies then maybe that image doesn't belong here? --Morita Akio (talk) 20:59, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

If Singapore rules are pretty much the same as UK (which is what that link says) then File:ZENlogo.png should be fine. - Jmabel ! talk 02:00, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Foae pentru minte

Can someone who reads Romanian confirm whether the files in Category:Foae pentru minte (organized by month by year) are the same as Category:Foaie pentru minte, inimă și literatură? The later has 1838 while the former goes from 1843 onward. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:04, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Ricky81682: Looks like it is. Remark: I've never seen this sort of combination of Latin & Cyrillic alphabets! I've seen Romanian from that period written in Cyrillic, but never a mix like this. - Jmabel ! talk 01:52, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
• Romanian-language article says it was published in Brașov, and lasted from 2 July 1835 to 24 February 1865. - Jmabel ! talk 01:55, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
• FWIW, if you want to merge, Category:Foaie pentru minte, inimă și literatură is the category Wikidata connects to that ro-wiki article. - Jmabel ! talk 01:56, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• I saw that. As a non-Romanian speaker, too much looked alike for me to not think there was something off. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:58, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

How best to disentangle two copper engravers (Andreas Geiger)

Hi, we have Category:Andreas Geiger and Creator:Andreas Geiger. They are both referencing Andreas Geiger the Elder (1773-1856), d:Q21083268. However, the category currently only contains images engraved by the son, Andreas Geiger the Younger (1798-1871?), d:Q111020407. About a dozen images created by the father are available online and could be uploaded. There are probably dozens or even hundreds more by the son.

I'm not sure how best to proceed. Should the category be renamed/moved to "Andreas Geiger the Younger" (and get its own creator page?), and the creator renamed to "Andreas Geiger the Elder"? --Jonas kork (talk) 13:16, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Jonas kork: Yes, exactly. And also make sure that the Wikidata end of this is properly sorted out. - Jmabel ! talk 14:56, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jmabel: Thanks! --Jonas kork (talk) 09:21, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Video Transcode System Not Starting

I uploaded a video yesterday (20 hrs ago now) and none of the transcodes have even started All just say "added to job queue" with status "Not Ready". None have failed. One (or the smaller/quicker ones) I reset to see if that would kick things into life but it just has the same status (added ago is shorter as I did a reset). Just a straight uplkoad of the webm file (i.e. not using Video2Commons or anything and a process that has worked in the past. Just the one upload (no aborts, retries, etc. - all went smoothly). https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:06-Common_Blackbird_18-Apr-2022_nX.webm. I have both purged that page and refreshed the page in my browser (many times now) What can I do to get things going? PsamatheM (talk) 11:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

@PsamatheM: Convenience link: File:06-Common Blackbird 18-Apr-2022 nX.webm#transcodestatus.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 12:02, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Nearly all webm files show in the metadata Lavf as encoder for audio and video. This file shows Lavf and Handbrake. I don't know, if that is the cause. --C.Suthorn (talk) 18:12, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Pretty well all my previous video uploads were the same. Converted to webm using Handbrake. Always worked in the past. Also, if it does not like the file it should fail but it looks like it's not even started on them. I've no idea how the internals of Commons works but it's a bit like some background process has locked-up or failed.PsamatheM (talk) 19:13, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Doing a version upload may be worth a try, but it will be rejected, if it is bit-by-bit identical (uploading a different version, then reseting to the original may work). Or create an error task at phabricator (soon, so that developers have a chance to check the logs). Is the message digest of the uploaded file identical to the message digest of your local file? --C.Suthorn (talk) 20:07, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Just tried another restart on a format that should take no time to complete. It started but has been going far too long. What does one do to get things like this sorted? Unlikely to be a bug to report as it has worked. My (uninformed guess) something untoward happening on the server(s) PsamatheM (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Restarted them all and they seem to be running but are taking an age and longer. Something is wrong but I have no idea who to report it to or what to do about it. PsamatheM (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

To block Ant.Bauer

An automated filter does not permit to undo his edits. --2A00:1370:8192:4B2D:39EC:571E:7557:6DCF 16:00, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, IP. Their edits are already reverted. Problematic users are reported at COM:AN/B. --Hulged (talk) 16:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Commons very slow

Hi, I find Commons very slow today, especially uploading which used to be around 250 KB/s, and which is now at 50 KB/s (or even less). Does anyone see this? Yann (talk) 18:38, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

My uploads around today noon worked well, but in the last days general page loading was sometimes a bit slow and there is a problem with the map service affecting the Wikidata Infoboxes. --GPSLeo (talk) 19:14, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Been slow for a few days. I had lots of problems getting transcodes through on a short uploaded video and when they eventually did get through (after 1+ days) they took forever when should have been very quick [[19]]. Even just downloading a page has been slow (getting poster image on a video has a significant delay). PsamatheM (talk) 19:21, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

The transcodes was a bug from wednesday's deploy till friday afternoon. See also phab:T306697. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:02, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Category:Pages which use score

Category:Pages which use score? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 191.126.24.107 (talk) 00:31, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Category:Pages which use score includes pages that have musical scores in them as XML. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:41, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Is this is same thing as "pages which use Mw:Extension:Score"? These can be searched for using Special:PagesWithProp/score, which perhaps makes the category redundant. Verbcatcher (talk) 04:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher As far as I understood the page prop will be phased out in future: Gerrit:775914. Raymond 10:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Perhaps this should be renamed to Category:Pages using the Score extension, to match the corresponding category on English Wikipedia. Will this category be populated automatically, as it appears that the EnWiki category will? Verbcatcher (talk) 22:59, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

2022 Board of Trustees Call for Candidates

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.

More languages • Please help translate to your language

The Board of Trustees seeks candidates for the 2022 Board of Trustees election. Read more on Meta-wiki.

The 2022 Board of Trustees election is here! Please consider submitting your candidacy to serve on the Board of Trustees.

The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees oversees the Wikimedia Foundation's operations. Community-and-affiliate selected trustees and Board-appointed trustees make up the Board of Trustees. Each trustee serves a three year term. The Wikimedia community has the opportunity to vote for community-and-affiliate selected trustees.

The Wikimedia community will vote to fill two seats on the Board in 2022. This is an opportunity to improve the representation, diversity, and expertise of the Board as a team.

Who are potential candidates? Are you a potential candidate? Find out more on the Apply to be a Candidate page.

Thank you for your support,

Movement Strategy and Governance on behalf of the Elections Committee and the Board of Trustees

Zuz (WMF) (talk) 12:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikimedia Foundation annual plan discussions about Commons

Last week, the Wikimedia Foundation shared its draft annual plan on Meta and invited input via open calls in different time zones. You might have noticed that Maryana recognized that Commons is in desperate need of repair and made it a priority for the year ahead.

There will be two calls dedicated to Commons: Wikimedia Commons 1 on Tuesday 26 April at 10:00 to 11:30 UTC Wikimedia Commons 2 on Thursday 28 April at 16:00 to 17:30 UTC

Each call will be open to anyone to attend and you don’t need to register in advance. FRomeo (WMF) (talk) 13:30, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

So, Commons community: collectively, do we have a sense of what we think most urgently needs attention?

At the turn of the year User:SJ started a thread "Uplifting the multimedia stack (was: Community Wishlist Survery)" on Wikimedia-l [20] (cross-posted also at Commons-l, with different replies: [21]), where he wrote:

The annual community wishlist survey (implemented by a small team, possibly in isolation?) may not be the mechanism for prioritizing large changes, but the latter also deserve a community-curated priority queue. To complement the staff-maintained priorities in phab.

For core challenges (like Commons stability and capacity), I'd be surprised if the bottleneck were people or budget. We do need a shared understanding of what issues are most important and most urgent, and how to solve them.

As a result of that thread, he created User:Sj/multimedia, which people may wish to consider.

Also, a couple of months before User:Ladsgroup had posted this, detailing some fundamental technical problems: [22]; where he started:

Well, if we need to have better support for multimedia, first we need to give some attention to the existing system that is basically falling apart. Let me give you some examples...

Also worth noting is this, posted by User:Gnangarra to the Community Wishlist process: General maintenance, outstanding phabricator tickets, which he summarised [23] as

a request for Commons to have all the phabricator tickets(approximately 900) fixed, the video upload issues to be fixed, two-factor authentication to be added to existing tools. Via a team of Staff and volunteers being created to focus on Commons.

For reference, the former Multimedia team's Phabricator workboard can be found at [24], though that's not 900, so that can only be some of the tickets. The even larger Commons workboard on Phabricator is here: [25]. Proposals that were ruled eligible for the wishlist process can be found at m:Community Wishlist Survey 2022/Multimedia and Commons. (Gnangarra's was, as he expected, ruled too big).

So, to repeat User:SJ's question above: what is our understanding of what issues are most important and most urgent? -- Jheald (talk) 18:48, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

One of the mayor issues is that important and much used tools where developed by volunteers now left the project and leaving the tools unmaintained. Such tools should become maintained by the WMF team. --GPSLeo (talk) 19:47, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Please hold such discussions using free and open-source services such as Jitsi. It is very disappointing that Wikimedia, as the foundation behind an open encyclopedia, uses services such as Zoom to which many users, including me, have no access. These proprietary services block many countries and locations. 4nn1l2 (talk) 20:36, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

@FRomeo (WMF): For your attention. 4nn1l2 (talk) 20:37, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Dear User:4nn1l2 I'm sorry you can't join the calls due to our selection of Zoom as the video conferencing platform. This has been addressed over on meta:Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2022-2023/draft#Zoom. Please know that we will also be monitoring this thread and will document any needs surfaced here alongside those discussed in the calls. FRomeo (WMF) (talk) 12:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

I can't find this in phab, although I know it's there: many of us have recently been unable to add (or sometimes even see) image notes. They can be a very useful feature, but not if they are broken. I would love to see that on the list. - Jmabel ! talk 22:13, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

How about the bigger picture: rather than fix individual pieces of the bots, user scripts, third-party tools, extensions, etc. that have been needed to transform MediaWiki into media management software capable of managing the world's largest free media resource, let's open up to the possibility that MediaWiki may not be the ideal foundation? — Rhododendrites ^talk |  00:20, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• I think its the big picture thats important, with the WMF annual plan we have a great starting point to work from. We have a large back log of phabricator tickets that need clearing, we need the video converts capable of accepting larger files then doing to conversion to webm even if its held in a queue for conversion later and takes a day or two to happen. We also need a review of existing tools: do they need Two Factor Authentication ability, can they be consolidated within other tools, or fix or create alternatives to these unsupported ones. The keys will phab tickets being done, and a full review of available tools and their features that work. As an example Commonist has good front end but isnt stable and is unsupported. Gnangarra 04:23, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• How about just to look at m:Community Wishlist Survey 2022/Multimedia and Commons and all previous years? It'll be great if results of at least of some votings will finally materialize. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:02, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

• Well, I've been saying for years that the Wikimedia Commons needs its own community wishlist not unlike the German-language Wikipedia, Wikimedia Deutschland has a large technical staff and if the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) works together with Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) they could make it happen, the issues that affect the Wikimedia Commons are too different from those of other Wikimedia websites to be grouped in together with them, as they will largely get ignored for many Wikipedia-centric demands and the lack of having a dedicated Wikimedia chapter for the Wikimedia Commons or at least not thorough enough investment from the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Germany might be a reason why this website has so many (technical) issues, as their investments into Wikidata are helping that project advance for the better due to constant technical improvements. There are basic organisational features that have been demanded for years in the Phabricator that are tagged as "low priority" and have gone ignored for years. Having a dedicated local annual community technical wishlist here would help a lot. MP4 files are still not accepted despite multiple discussions calling for them to be accepted and the lack of technical ways to improve the Wikimedia Commons is holding a lot of educational content from being uploaded. Perhaps creating a new WMF chapter could Wikimedia Multimedia (WMMM) or Wikimultimedia (WMM) that could be more directly involved with the technical aspects of the Wikimedia Commons and help recruit GLAM content donors might be a step in the right direction. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 22:49, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
• I am keeping a non-complete list of things where I think Commons could improve at User:TheDJ#Commons_dev_wishlist —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:46, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
• Currently Commons is very slow for me, and upload is half-broken. It used to be 250 KB/s, but it is now only 50 KB/s, or even slower in the evening (UTC). Uploading a large file is a pain, and take ages. Yann (talk) 13:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Special template to mark vertical text in image annotations?

File:Chinese-operated Khmer-Vietnamese restaurant.jpg has some vertical texts. i wanna transcribe them, but in case people who dont know the language gets it wrong, is there something to mark that my transcription is vertical and from right to left? that is, first line of transcription is the first column from the right. (btw the annotation gadget doesnt appear on this file page.)--RZuo (talk) 12:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

In enwiki there is en:Template:Vertical_text template. It may be useful in Commons as well. Ruslik (talk) 20:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

For RZuo's case specifically, en:Template:Vertical text RTL is needed. --HyperGaruda (talk) 03:49, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Which one do you think is better?

I edited Template:FoP-Sweden/layout.

The position and order of the icons have been changed as follows.

Before	After

Is there any problem with editing like this?

Ox1997cow (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

That diagonal line is meant to be part of a "crossed out red circle 'No' symbol", I believe, so I'm not sure the new colourisation makes sense - I'm not saying the first is the height of clearness, but the second is worse. No-one is going to look at that and get its intended meaning first glance. Few enough would do that with the original. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:53, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

@Adam Cuerden: So, which one is better, before editing or after editing? --Ox1997cow (talk) 03:51, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

At least the new one is in the same style as File:SemiPD-icon.svg, which is used for the vast majority of FoP templates. I find it somewhat clearer than the old one, so I'd suggest to keep it until someone has a better idea. El Grafo (talk) 09:22, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I find the grey and red a lot clearer than the pink and red -- the colours are less similar, making it clearer that two distinct things have been combined. And the grey is what we use elsewhere for 'no copyright'. Jheald (talk) 18:17, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Survey on “the use of openly licensed photographs and machine learning”

This came across my radar: Open Future, “a European think tank for the Open Movement”, is running a survey to learn about views of people who openly shared photos on the use of those photos for machine learning. Fore more information on their research project, see https://openfuture.eu/research/ai-commons/.

Here is the blurb:

In the past decade, openly licensed photographs of faces on Flickr have been used to train AI facial recognition systems without the photographers being fully aware of this type of re-use of their works. Open Future launched a survey to understand how photographers who share their work under CC licenses feel about this.

The survey lives at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/AICommons

While I am not affiliated with Open Future in any fashion, I think this is an interesting topic, and very relevant to the Wikimedia Commons community ; hence why I think it’s okay to relay it in this forum (I also suggested a WatchlistNotice about it).

(For some expected questions: yes the survey is only available in English, and yes it is done via SurveyMonkey and is thus subject to whatever Privacy Policy and Terms and Conditions that platform has).

(cc @Tarkowski: who is involved in Open Future)

Jean-Fred (talk) 18:03, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a very important topic. After going through the survey, I'm a bit confused: I hope the makers of the survey are aware that copyright and personality rights are two separate things. These two are being mixed together in the survey. But maybe that's exactly the point - figuring out how people feel about this kind of thing, regardless of whether it makes any sense or not? El Grafo (talk) 11:46, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Next steps: Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC) and UCoC Enforcement Guidelines

The Community Affairs Committee of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees would like to thank everyone who participated in the recently concluded community vote on the Enforcement Guidelines for the Universal Code of Conduct (UCoC).

While the Enforcement Guidelines did reach a threshold of support necessary for the Board to review, we encouraged voters, regardless of which way they were voting, to provide feedback on the elements of the enforcement guidelines that they felt needed to be changed or fixed, as well as why, in case it seemed advisable to launch a further round of edits that would address community concerns.

Foundation staff who have been reviewing comments have advised us of some of the emerging themes, and as a result we have decided as Community Affairs Committee to ask the Foundation to reconvene the drafting committee and to undertake another community engagement to refine the enforcement guidelines based on the community feedback received from the recently concluded vote.

Further, we are aware of the concerns with the note 3.1 in the Universal Code of Conduct Policy. We are directing the Foundation to facilitate a review of this language to ensure that the Policy meets its intended purposes of supporting a safe and inclusive community, without waiting for the planned review of the entire Policy at the end of year.

Please visit here to read the full announcement.

Best, Zuz (WMF) (talk) 11:50, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Ridiculous Split btwn Category:Yangtze River and Category:Chang Jiang

No, I don't want to handle it all on my own without any knowledge of programming (sorry!) but please put this on the maintenance to-do list.

There's an extensive and pointless fork of content right now between Category:Yangtze River and Category:Chang Jiang. Everything needs to go under a single category using its primary English name (Yangtze), which should be easy enough to do with appropriate programming. The slightly harder part is the various Chinglish mistakes like categories named "Bridges over Chang Jiang" (=Bridges over the Yangtze River), "First Turn of Changjiang" (=First Turn of the Yangtze River), &c. Those are the major issues. There are also some minor ones like calling the entirely Chinese river "international", although that might be some commercial shipping category. — LlywelynII 18:06, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

•  Support Category:Chang Jiang should be merged into Category:Yangtze River per Commons:Categories#Category names. This doesn't even require programming but can be done with Cat-a-lot. De728631 (talk) 18:37, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

You should go to Commons:Categories for discussion and make one request to consolidate the categories under Category:Yangtze River. Should be a pretty straightforward request. Than everything can be renamed in one go. Multichill (talk) 21:13, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

there should be only one cat for the river from origin to river mouth, but i'd like to point out some nuances about the names.

in chinese, the river has many names for different sections. 長江 Chang Jiang generally refers to the section between Yibin and shanghai. 揚子江 Yangtze River refers to the section between nanking and shanghai.

but in english as well as many other european languages, the entire river is known as the yangtze river.--RZuo (talk) 12:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

RZuo, this seems like useful information to preserve. Perhaps once the merge is complete, you or someone with the appropriate knowledge could write a few descriptive sentences at the top of the category page showing these section names? This might help keep such a split from happening in the future. — Huntster (t @ c) 12:51, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Let's talk about the Desktop Improvements

Hello!

Have you noticed that some wikis have a different desktop interface? Are you curious about the next steps? Maybe you have questions or ideas regarding the design or technical matters?

Join an online meeting with the team working on the Desktop Improvements! It will take place on 29 April 2022 at 13:00 UTC and 18:00 UTC on Zoom. Click here to join. Meeting ID: 88045453898. Dial by your location.

Agenda

• Update on the recent developments
• Questions and answers, discussion

Format

The meeting will not be recorded or streamed. Notes will be taken in a Google Docs file. Olga Vasileva (the Product Manager) will be hosting this meeting. The presentation part will be given in English.

We can answer questions asked in English, French, Italian, and Polish. If you would like to ask questions in advance, add them on the talk page or send them to sgrabarczuk@wikimedia.org.

At this meeting, both Friendly space policy and the Code of Conduct for Wikimedia technical spaces apply. Zoom is not subject to the WMF Privacy Policy.

We hope to see you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:35, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

The first meeting starts in 40 minutes! We'll be waiting for you. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 12:24, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Nada Bakos and User:Clementineclove65

I came across a series of edits from User:Clementineclove65.

They uploaded seven images, all under a claim of {{Own}}, of Nada Bakos, a CIA analyst, and author of a book on targetting al Qaeda leaders. The images don't seem to be taken at public events, which implies they were taken by someone closely associated with Ms Bakos. Nothing wrong with that, except I wonder whether we should ask them to confirm their identity through OTRS?

They also made a series of clumsy edits to some of the existing images we had of Ms Bakos, that included removing those images from Category:Nada Bakos. I think that was a mistake, but I suspect it was a newbie mistake, and not a deliberate attempt to cause mischief. I've reverted those. [26], [27], [28], [29].

Sometimes we agree to delete properly licensed images of someone, when they tell us they think those images are unflattering. I think we are more inclined to agree to delete the images when they upload, or arrange to have a friend upload, alternate images they find more flattering. But, I think the best practice would be for the subject of the unflattering image to first confirm their identity through OTRS, then initiate a discussion over deletion. I think simply removing the image from the category about them, or having a friend do that, is a less than ideal choice.

As I indicated above, I think these are newbie mistakes, not intentional vandalism, so I don't think administrative action is required. Do other people agree?

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 03:10, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

An IP editor has also removed Bakos' image (and website) from the Wikidata item about her. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Coming soon: Improvements for templates

Fundamental changes in the template dialog.

Hello, more changes around templates are coming to your wiki soon:

The template dialog in VisualEditor and in the 2017 Wikitext Editor (beta) will be improved fundamentally: This should help users understand better what the template expects, how to navigate the template, and how to add parameters.

• project page, talk page

In syntax highlighting (CodeMirror extension), you can activate a colorblind-friendly color scheme with a user setting.

• project page, talk page

Deployment is planned for May 10. This is the last set of improvements from WMDE Technical Wishes' focus area “Templates”.

We would love to hear your feedback on our talk pages!

-- Johanna Strodt (WMDE) 11:13, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Request to whitelist a domain for direct upload from url

I would like to upload this Apollo astronaut photo ( https://tothemoon.ser.asu.edu/data_a70/AS16/raw/AS16-118-18879.tif ) from url to commons with the old form. The photo's entry is linked on this page: https://tothemoon.ser.asu.edu/search?class=nav-light&page=694 Commons already has a version of this file, File:AS16-118-18879 (21709835851).jpg, but it is at a lower quality than the "med.png" ".png" and ".tif" versions. I want to upload a higher resolution of this photo to take advantage of its excellent original quality. Magnified and cropped with the css script, it could allow me to use one of the earliest astronaut photos of a certain area of the United States. I tried the url2commons tool and it doesn't work for this, and neither NASA or the JPL have download links for the .tif photos they achieve.

The about page for March to the Moon states "Digital scans of Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo flight films by NASA (Metric, Panoramic, ALSCC, 70mm Hasselblad, 35mm Nikon and Stellar) in their raw (unprocessed) form are in the public domain and as such are covered by NASA usage policy for still image and computer files (see here)." They claim a copyright on their .png images though, and restrict the license past what commons would allow, which surprises me. I think this claim would not hold up in court. Yet I am most interested in having the raw image (.tif) uploaded to commons because it is has the highest quality.

Could the tothemoon.ser.asu.edu domain be whitelisted so the .tifs archived on the domain could be uploaded directly to commons?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 16:27, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Epiphyllumlover: Hi,

That's most interesting. For whitelisting a URL, a report should be filled up in Phabricator. See the parent report here: phab:T60224 with instructions how to open a request. Regards, Yann (talk) 18:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

It says that to post on Phabricator, I must have a verified email account, which I have not set up. Would you be willing to do it for me?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 18:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

i think if url2commons doesnt work then you cant upload it with the upload form either. you should save it and then upload.--RZuo (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I've thought about doing that. The largest file I've uploaded directly (with bigChunkedUpload) was File:Washington island, Door County, Wisconsin Northeast Southwest Orthography 2010.png, but the .tif file is nearly twice as large. How large have you successfully uploaded directly, or heard about others uploading? Would bigChunkedUpload time out after a certain number of days or hours of continuous upload?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 23:17, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

sorry i didnt know it's a huge file. i dont have experience with big files.

my wild guess, the reason that url2com failed might also be because of the large size. it timed out in the process somehow. maybe Help:Server-side upload can help.--RZuo (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate that * Pppery * has opened this request as phab:T306671, fulfilling my request. I wondered if it was the size. It could be; also TheDJ tested the site and reported it was slow. I didn't know about the help page, so thank you for telling me about it. I asked at w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Is_anyone_willing_to_post_to_Phabricator_on_my_behalf? and was told by xaosflux that this request sounds similar to phab:T251882 and that it "will be best to follow up at the already running discussion there, just ask someone to open a new phab, they can model it on T251882". I downloaded the .tif file, cropped off the black film part and after converting it to .png it was only 380 MB instead of the 1.2 GB. That gave me hope that it would upload, and sure enough File:North America on April 16, 1972, cropped from AS16-118-18879.png came through recently. I also have plans for another Apollo photo that I haven't downloaded and I'll keep this request open.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 23:42, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

@Epiphyllumlover: Rule deployed. Stang^★ 07:10, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Stang.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 23:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

@Stang: , I tried it today for the direct-from-url-upload on the old form for https://tothemoon.ser.asu.edu/data_a70/AS12/raw/AS12-50-7325.tif and got, "Error fetching URL: SSL certificate problem: unable to get local issuer certificate / There was a problem during the HTTP request: 0 Error". Url2Commons just says "ERROR". The link to the .tif works fine from a browser. Is there way to solve this, and if so, who can do it?--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 15:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Needing help in fixing the layout at COM:SIG China

There are two instances at COM:SIG China - at 独创性, 美术作品, and 道 - where there is some line breaks that disrupt the layout. I do not know how to access the template to fix this myself. Could someone fix this? Veverve (talk) 09:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Pinging admin @Christian Ferrer: who I from what I see is more tech-savvy than I am. Veverve (talk) 12:42, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

• @Veverve: I think I fixed it, is it ok? Christian Ferrer ^(talk) 17:21, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

  @Christian Ferrer: yes, thanks! Veverve (talk) 17:22, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

More copyrighted images from the National Churches Trust Flickr account

There was a discussion back in 2020 (VP) (Deletion request) about CC-BY Flickr uploads from the National Churches Trust, which turned out to include several Crown Copyright images and others under copyright from other creators. I have not done an exhaustive search but there are probably others with issues given the prevalence of images uploaded with copyright labels. Note: two of these were flagged the first time round and not deleted; I can’t figure out whether this is because they were OK or whether they were overlooked.

• Crown copyright (mainly through RCAHMW):
  • File:Ceredigion,_LLANFIHANGEL_Y_CREUDDYN,_St_Michael_(2020)_-1_-_credit_to_RCAHMW_Crown_Copyright_(50248653527).jpg
  • File:Nanhoron,_Capel_Newydd_(35833210076)_(cropped).jpg
  • File:Maesteg,_Bethania_Chapel_(cropped).jpg
  • File:Llanrwst,_Capel_Seion_(35873784895).jpg
  • File:Yr_Hen_Gapel,_Llwynrhydowen.jpg
  • File:Pentre_Llifior_Methodist_Church_(35833209646).jpg
  • File:Llandegley,_The_Pales_Meeting_House_(35873785055).jpg
  • File:Maesteg,_Bethania_Chapel_(35833210326).jpg
  • File:Nanhoron,_Capel_Newydd_(35833210076).jpg
• (c) APEC Architects:
  • File:West_Midlands,_KITTS_GREEN,_Birmingham,_Our_Lady_Help_of_Christians_(c_APEC_Architects)_(31156796850).jpg
  • File:West_Midlands,_KITTS_GREEN,_Birmingham,_Our_Lady_Help_of_Christians_(c_APEC_Architects)_(31528225485).jpg
• (c) Cornwall Historic Churches Trust:
  • File:Cornwall,_LISKEARD,_St_Martin_(c)_Cornwall_Historic_Churches_Trust_(38699420341).png
• (c) Friends of Friendless Churches:
  • File:Llangwm_Uchaf,_Monmouthshire_(c)_Friends_of_Friendless_Churches_(48878889658).jpg
• (c) St Catherine’s Church:
  • File:Ludham_-_St_Catherine_church(copyright_St_Catherine_church)_(50247609668).jpg
  • File:Ludham_-_St_Catherine_church_2(copyright_St_Catherine_church)_(50248452702).jpg
• (c) Alex Ramsey:
  • File:Llanfaglan_St_Baglan,_Gwynedd_(c)_Alex_Ramsey_(48879614977).jpg
• (c) Baz Richardson:
  • File:St_Peter_and_St_Paul,_Knapton_NR28_0SB_(copyright_Baz_Richardson)_(1)_(18705285030).jpg
  • File:St_Peter_and_St_Paul,_Knapton_NR28_0SB_(copyright_Baz_Richardson)_(2)_(18895810511).jpg
  • File:St_Peter_and_St_Paul,_Knapton_NR28_0SB_(copyright_Baz_Richardson)_(3)_(18270391824).jpg
  • File:St_Peter_and_St_Paul,_Knapton_NR28_0SB_(copyright_Baz_Richardson)_(4)_(18272260653).jpg
• (c) Dan Farrar:
  • File:St_Bride's_East_Kilbride_(c)_-_Dan_Farrar_(23610372626).jpg
  • File:St_Bride's_East_Kilbride_(c)_Dan_Farrar_(23554078001).jpg
  • File:St_Bride's_East_Kilbride_(c)_Dan_Farrar_(23009465713).jpg
• (c) Danny Murphy:
  • File:St_Luke,_Holbeck,_Yorkshire_(c)_MUST_CREDIT_DANNY_MURPHY_(44468589070).jpg
• (c) Edward Nicholl:
  • File:Pickering_Methodist_Chapel,_Pickering,_Yorkshire_MUST_CREDIT_(C)_Edward_Nicholl_(46285413351).jpg
• John Blakeston (note: page has duplicate redirect with copyright "c" in the title):
  • File:Cornwall,_CUBERT,_Cubert_Church_(John_Blakeston)_(35835440502).jpg
• (c) John Sutton:
  • File:Hertfordshire_REED_St_Mary_(48496043946).jpg
• (c) Malcom Osman:
  • File:St._Barnabas_Church,_Queen_Camel,_Somerset_MUST_CREDIT_(C)_Malcom_Osman_(46235139222).jpg
• (c) Martin Crampin:
  • File:Ynyscynhaearn,_St_Cynhaearn,_Gwynedd_(c)_Martin_Crampin_(48879418316).jpg
  • File:Brithdir_St_Marks_Gwynedd_(c)_Martin_Crampin_JPG_(48879419796).jpg
• (c) Peter Wood:
  • File:Wales,_DREFACH_FELINDRE,_St_Barnabas_(c_Peter_Wood)_(31562475616).jpg
• (c) Richard Peat:
  • File:St_Cadoc,_Raglan,_Monmouthshire_NP15_2EN_(copyright_Richard_Peat)_(3)_(18866688916).jpg
• (c) Richard White:
  • File:St_Dominica,_St_Dominic,_PL12_6SQ_(copyright_Richard_White)_(2)_(18895785781).jpg
• (c) Robert McDonald:
  • File:St_Andrew,_Stoke_Newington,_London_N16_5DU_(c)_Robert_McDonald_(18866804736).jpg
  • File:St_Andrew,_Stoke_Newington,_London_N16_5DU_(c)_Robert_McDonald_(18893093585).jpg
  • File:St_Andrew,_Stoke_Newington,_London_N16_5DU_(c)_Robert_McDonald_(2)_(18270548054).jpg
  • File:St_Andrew,_Stoke_Newington,_London_N16_5DU_(c)_Robert_McDonald_(3)_(18272435153).jpg
  • File:Jesus_before_Pilate_St_Andrew,_Stoke_Newington,_London_N16_5DU_(c)_Robert_McDonald_(18272426053).jpg
• (c) Steve MT:
  • File:Ruthin_Tabernacle_Chapel_(35833209596).jpg
• (c) Stuart Chalmers:
  • File:Scotland_PAISLEY_Methodist_Central_Hall_(c_Stuart_Chalmers)_(31528343375).jpg
• (c) Terry Robinson:
  • File:Lancashire_WARTON_St_Paul_(48496177677).jpg
• (c) Tudor Barlow:
  • File:St_Michael_and_All_Angels,_Upper_Sapey,_WR6_6XR_(copyright_TudorBarlow_(Flickr))_(1)_(18270422544).jpg

Separately to the deletion requests which will need to be enacted, should this Flickr uploader be flagged as a problematic source? Dogfennydd (talk) 09:47, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Dogfennydd: Yes, please.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 09:53, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Weird thumbnail (?)

File:Casasola.jpg This image depicts a white building. But the thumbnail in "File history" shows a different picture. Does this image show a pretty weird thumbnail or it's just my computer? If it indeed displays something completely unrelated, why would that be happening? I've tried to purge the page, but still... Strakhov (talk) 13:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Strakhov: I tried to reproduce your problem, but it all looks fine to me.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 13:55, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jeff G.: Thanks. I opened the page with a different browser and it's fine too. Weird. Strakhov (talk) 13:57, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

By the way, the thumbail is this image (apparently related to a local business named "Casasola"?). Maybe it's related to a deleted file. I don't know. Strakhov (talk) 14:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, it's a former deleted version of this filename deleted in 2009. Strakhov (talk) 14:02, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

To get rid of weird thumbnails I use this method: download it, crop off one pixel, and re-upload over the original. I especially get weird thumbnails from croptool.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 17:55, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Video queue

Hi, I uploaded a video, which has been in a queue for a week. I think something is wrong, but I don't know what. See File:Updated BP Texas City Animation on the 15th Anniversary of the Explosion.ogg. Thanks. PhotographyEdits (talk) 18:03, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits: It appears the transcodes were stuck in the job queue for nearly nine days. I reset them all, and the first one finished.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 19:02, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jeff G. Thank you! PhotographyEdits (talk) 19:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits: You're welcome. I also removed the nasty underscores from your OP. Why is there a discrepancy of 35s between the YouTube source and the video here?   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 19:40, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jeff G. Since it's in the public domain, I think it is legal to edit the video. After the logo introduction, there is an advertisement that I removed. PhotographyEdits (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits It's legal, but it's not nice unless you indicate the edits you made on the file description pages. You can use {{Extracted from}} as a model for how do do that.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 20:25, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jeff G. Then I have to upload the original video here too, right? That seems to be a bit of a waste of resources on Wikimedia servers. In that template, I have to refer to a different file, not an external link. PhotographyEdits (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits No, the following will do: "This file has been extracted from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goSEyGNfiPM with extraneous ad removed by PhotographyEdits."   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 20:51, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jeff G. Does it look okay now on the video page? PhotographyEdits (talk) 20:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@PhotographyEdits: Yes, thanks. That wording as the source field would also work. Also, my condolences to the victims of the tragedy and their friends and relatives. Hopefully, we can learn from the highlighted mistakes and prevent future such tragedies.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 21:02, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Licensing information for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation logo

Hello all. Looking at File:Welcome logo VOC Logo Words Navy copy.png, I don't believe that its current licensing disclosure is correct. It claims that the logo for this Washington D.C. political think tank is the personal creation of Theosis135, and thus is released under CC-BY-SA 4.0. Now, it very well may be the case that the logo is free media, but I can't verify this after a cursory search on the organization's website.

The file was transferred from English Wikipedia by Theosis135 (this is their only contribution on Commons). The edit on English Wikipedia which changed the logo to use this file was revision 939372182, also by them. Previously this article used the now-deleted file wikipedia:en:File:Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation Logo.png for the logo. (Which was, notably, deleted as being non-free media).

If another editor has more information regarding the logo and its licensing, their insight would be appreciated. Alternatively, if Theosis135 could weigh in and explain what the origin of the image was and why it's free media, that would potentially save a lot of time in investigating this matter.

Thank you. aismallard (talk) 21:07, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@Aismallard: Thanks, I started Commons:Deletion requests/File:Welcome logo VOC Logo Words Navy copy.png for you.   — Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me} 21:43, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

KBE stations

Bonn Rheinuferbahnhof or Stadtbahnhaltestelle Bonn West?Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:25, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Wow. You have been there in 1983? Ok. I've asked a friend of mine, who used this train in his youth. He thinks it is Bonn centralstation. --Túrelio (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

The Bonn Hbf underground station of the stadbahn was already opened in 1978 and by 1983 the stadbahn line 16 Bonn Koln was already running. Before that the Bonn Rheinuferbahnhof endstation was used for the Vorgebirgsbahn: File:KBE ET-58.JPG. see de:Vorgebirgsbahn and de:Rheinuferbahnhof. But maybe the Bonn Rheinuferbahnhof was an annex station of Bonn hbf. The track 3 indication is confusing. Bonn hbf has very few tracks but 3 is is very few and the other tracks on the island platform are trough tracks. Smiley.toerist (talk) 08:31, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I've posted the question at de:Portal_Diskussion:Bonn/Rhein-Sieg#Welcher_KBE-Bahnhof_in_Bonn?.--Túrelio (talk) 09:15, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Those houses you see to the left are the same as the first few houses on the north side of the Bachstraße. --HyperGaruda (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Which suggests it is not Bonn West, because the Bachstraße is impossible to see from there. --HyperGaruda (talk) 11:07, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I am now certain it is Rheinuferbahnhof. See Bonn Rheinuferbahnhof. It next to the main railway line.Smiley.toerist (talk) 16:07, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree that this was the Rheinuferbahnhof which used to be just northwest of Bonn central station. The houses you can see in the upper left corner can still be found in Google maps satellite images at the corner of Bachstraße/Herwarthstraße west of the central station. De728631 (talk) 15:14, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Wp/nog

Hello! Are there two users who can edit to test Nogai Wikipedia? It can be also a Turkic user who knows little bit Kipchak and the Cyrillic alphabet (mostly possible is Kazakh, Karakalpak, Crimean Tatar and other Turkic). When you know one user please ping it. Because we need only two users who need to be active in Wp/nog to approve Wp/nog. TayfunEt. (talk) 08:09, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Searching EXIF

Do we have a tool that will search inside EXIF metadata, for example for a photographer's name? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:12, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

The exif metadata is stored in the database, and you can search it with something like quarry. But if you have to search through every file record, that performs poorly, so preferably find some extra criteria to filter down the potential set of files. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:19, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I can restrict to single category. Could you (or someone) provide an example EXIF search, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@TheDJ:  ? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:04, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: TheDJ provided one above: quarry:query/64079. Alternatively, here's on I wrote a while back: quarry:query/59965. There is a complication that makes clever searches difficult, though. The img_metadata field can be stored in two different formats. On older files, it's some kind of serialised PHP array, while on newer ones it's JSON. So you need to avoid accidentally writing a query that only works with one of them as I think my one does. --bjh21 (talk) 16:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Where in your example is the category specified? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:09, 5 May 2022 (UTC)