User talk:Magog the Ogre/Archive 3

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Old version filemover

Hi Magog the Ogre. Is there a way to access your tool directly via URL (i.e. prefill the first form and submit)? or similar does not work. --Leyo 23:23, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Right; it takes POST variables, not GET variables. May I ask why? Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:29, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

In order to minimize typing. :-) A link in de:Vorlage:NowCommons would allow admins to work more efficiently if there is more than one file version. The visual check (which versions to transfer) and typing the TUSC info would of course still be necessary. --Leyo 00:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Ooh; that's a good idea; I'll have that ready in about 10 minutes (literally). Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:04, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
✓ Done (three minutes... very quick fix) Face-smile.svg Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:08, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. Thank you. What about making trg optional, i.e. when the name on Commons is identical? --Leyo 00:21, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. One last thing:
Please wait while OgreBot processes your upload. This can take several minutes depending on file size. The upload will likely proceed whether you shut this window or not. Please do not submit the page multiple times.

looks like an error message to me. What about just having the last sentence in red? --Leyo 09:21, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

LOL, OK, done. Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

3D artwork in a public place

Hi. :) Since you took part in this conversation, I just wanted to let you know that the legal team has been looking into this question. One of the legal interns has posted some thoughts on the matter at the village pump. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 19:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Recently uploaded files

Hi, all the files I have recently uploaded, concerning Charles and Catherine Dickens's children and Ellen Ternan, have been found on, for instance the file File:Mamie-dickens.jpg comes from
I don't know where and how to mention this provenance on Wikimedia Commons. Please help me rectify whatever I did wrong, I would be extremely sad to lose the illustrations in my articles on Catherine Dickens and Ellen Ternan ( /
Please use my French talk page to answer my request :
Many thanks. Looking forward to hearing from you very soon. Robert Ferrieux (talk) 11:26, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

You're right; they're not properly sourced at English Wikipedia. But the criterion for them being public domain is lower at English Wikipedia, so I didn't nominate them for deletion there, although I probably should. At English Wikipedia, if they were published before 1923, they are free, period. On Commons, the author must have died before 1942. Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply: considering that all these people have died well before 1942 and that the photographs were taken when they were still young or fairly young, it could be assumed that the authors have also died before 1942, couldn't it. In any case, the pictures are in the public domain, available on multiple websites and in books relating to the Dickens or the Ternan families, reproduced without any permission whatsoever. The only exception I found was a full picture of Ellen Ternan in formal dress, which I refrained from downloading because, unlike all the others, it did have © incrusted on it. I sincerely hope you'll see my point and won't delete files from Commons which might spoil my articles, currently on their ways to gold stars. Best wishes, Robert Ferrieux (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

OK. I'll look into it a bit more closely. Were they all taken before about 1880? Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Balach Marri

Hello. The English Wikipedia has this file. You can move it to the Wikimedia Commons? Regards,Sentinel R (talk) 06:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

You can do it: Anyway, w:Balach Marri is one really badly written article. I'm fixing that stain before I do anything else. Magog the Ogre (talk) 06:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Done. Thanks! Sentinel R (talk) 06:59, 9 January 2012 (UTC)


Source Bulwersator (talk) 07:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

No, what happened is I looked at the English Wikipedia version and noticed it lacked a source, and then saw it was transferred from here to there (including the original upload log), and assumed it would still be unsourced with only a quick glance. I missed the source. It hardly occur to me the uploader here (you) might have found and added the source since. My bad. Magog the Ogre (talk) 07:41, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
Sometimes it is possible to find source using google (search by description or image) Bulwersator (talk) 14:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Commons:Bots/Requests/OgreBot 2

Congratulations! This task was approved. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Yay! Now I can start it editing in a sensible manner. Face-smile.svg Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Message tied up in Ribbon.jpg Hello, Magog the Ogre. You have new messages at Mithril's talk page.
You may remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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no perm File_talk:Chip_pan_fire_demo,_North_Yorkshire.jpg

Hallo Magog the Ogre, Note: File_talk:Chip_pan_fire_demo,_North_Yorkshire.jpg Don't know if you watch this file... Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 02:20, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Admin nomination

Hello Magog

I don't know if you are interested in this. I'm thinking of nominating you for adminship here. For me, you are one of the good candidates who has been here over 3 years and has over 2500 edits as well as being an administrator on en.wp. Please say if you agree to my suggestion and I will make the nomination. Remember to leave the talkback template to my page. Best regards--Morning Sunshine (talk) 11:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi, and thank you. It might be worth a try, but I have at least two users who will oppose it vociferously for so-so reasons (User:Fry1989, User:Fred the Oyster), and probably two more admins who might also oppose it (User:Rd232 because we've clashed in the past, or User:Jameslwoodward, who I've just had a stark disagreement with over text logos). There might be a few other people who don't like my stances on text logos. But otherwise, yes, I think I'm qualified to be an administrator. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the two admins will oppose. But this is only a guess from personal interaction with them. -- RE rillke questions? 13:38, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Based on the nature of our unresolved disagreement, I would have to oppose adminship. If you want to revisit it, perhaps by email, maybe it can be resolved in a way that would change that. Rd232 (talk) 14:02, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I'll be glad to revisit anything, but I will not adopt a conciliatory approach toward Fry1989 or Fred the Oyster. They're both incompetent and disruptive and should have been banned or blocked ages ago (as they were on English Wikipedia on numerous occasions). Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:38, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm afraid that summarises why you should not be an admin; the attitude is all wrong. Well, I hope you know that your non-admin contributions are much appreciated and valued. all the best, Rd232 (talk) 23:29, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
That is a childish and stupid comment (passive aggressive). If you have anything constructive to add, please respond, otherwise, I'd appreciate you stay away from my page. Magog the Ogre (talk) 23:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
I came here to notify you of a VP thread, and happened to see this thread with my name it, and was motivated to offer you an olive branch. Your response indicated that you weren't really interested, and in a manner that I do not think appropriate for an admin. Your additional response needs no further comment. Sorry that in trying to be helpful I ended up annoying you, via a need to be honest about what I might say in a putative RFA; unwatching your talk page now. cheers, Rd232 (talk) 23:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
That is a constructive response; thank you. I'm not annoyed at all; I just thought (and still think) your response was petty, and it was proper I point it out. My comments above that were as much about the fact I'm not interested; I indicated I am interested, but that I will not change my point of view that the two of them are bad users with a terrible influence on the community. Sorry, I've seen WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT before, and Fry in particular is a perfect case for it. Have you ever had a time when you really knew what you were talking about, but people fought you over it, and they were wrong? Yeah, that's how the situation is in my eyes. Also, I might point out this is a two-way street: if I'm too stiff-necked on my position to be an administrator, I'd think the same would apply to you (which of course is why I !voted oppose in your RFA; go figure). Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

For the record, I wouldn't oppose your RfA. If the logo disagreement you refer to is Commons:Deletion requests/File:TLC LA.png, yes, we disagreed, but I don't think there is anyone here that I have not disagreed with from time to time. I just ran though a bunch of your DR noms and comments looking for the one cited and while doing it I closed half a dozen of your noms as deleted. The fact that we have open DRs from December that ought to have been closed routinely three weeks ago speaks to the need for more active Admins. Five of us do more than half of all Admin actions, 31 of us do 90%. Fastily does more than the bottom 243 Admins.

I have had an extended e-mail exchange with Fred the Oyster and, while I don't like his language or impatience at all, I think he brings some useful skills to the table -- I would not like to lose him. I'm neutral to negative on Fry. I respect your opinion on both -- it is not "wrong" in my book, just different from mine. I don't think you need to be conciliatory toward either -- just barely tolerating them would suffice. That's my attitude toward a number of our colleagues, some of the Admins.

On the numbers, you are certainly qualified -- almost 28,000 edits here, 1,300 in the Commons: namespace. I'd suggest you settle your differences with Rd232 and then go for it.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:59, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Well thank you! I appreciate that. I understand the need for everyone (myself included) to be more tolerant of other users. Fry seems to have cooled down quite a bit (e.g., no longer calling for people to be blocked just because they nominate his images for deletion). Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Upload of two photographs from a website

Hi, thanks for your help with the Dickens family files.
Now I'd like to have your advice on this: I've just written an article on fr:Mary Scott Hogarth, Charles Dickens's sister-in-law who died aged 17. Two fairly recent photos of her grave and tombstone in Kensal Green Cemetery are available on the net at I've asked permission from the author, Connie Nisinger, to upload them into Wikimedia Commons so that I may illustrate my article, which was granted by return at my email address.
I'm wondering if you would you kindly tell me how to proceed, which documents are needed, so that I can import them without risking trouble afterwards. Many thanks. Robert Ferrieux (talk) 16:19, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

See Commons:OTRS. It'll take a few minutes to read but it's fairly straightforward. Magog the Ogre (talk) 04:11, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi Magog thanks a lot for your kind offer to help with Commons:Bots/Work_requests#Aviation_images. It is much appreciated. When i lost intermenet yesterday, you were having a few problems; did you manage to work them out? Also, would the pages that the bot would create be able to be placed at a COM:AVIATION subpage? Also, I have a good name for such a bot, if you are willing to hear my suggestion ;)

Anyway, look forward to hearing some feedback whenever, and if there's anything you need, just ask. I can also be contacted by email (use WM function, or have a look at the top of my talk page on Commons).

Cheers, russavia (talk) 00:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Alright, the bot code is ready; I'll post everything to User:OgreBot/Aviation with OgreBot until the bot is approved. What name do you want to give the bot? I might suggest something generic so that, should it perform a similar task in the future, it won't be confusing. Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:49, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Also, as you can see, there are a ton of false positives; you might want to play with the categorization a bit to get rid of that. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Looks interesting. Would you mind doing one for Category:Watercraft as well? --  Docu  at 19:03, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done User:OgreBot/Watercraft. Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Excellent. I couldn't figure out why File:Rabyně, občerstvení přístavní krčma u Páji.jpg and File:Palais de justice de Saint Calais.jpg are included. Maybe limiting inclusions to 2 or 3 levels would be sufficient.
I'm looking into a way to present a summary of the categorization of the images, grouped by various fields (ship identification, context, location, licensing). --  Docu  at 12:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
I actually reran the test on debug mode to make sure it wasn't a bug. I'll even show you the progression, FYI: File:Palais de justice de Saint Calais.jpg -> Category:Palais de Justice -> Category:Palais de la Cité -> Category:Quai de l'Horloge (Paris) -> Category:Quai de l'Horloge (Paris) -> Category:Wharves and quays by country -> Category:Wharves and quays -> Category:Dockwork -> Category:Docks -> Category:Shipbuilding -> Category:Ships -> Category:Watercraft. The problem with severing the link after an arbitrary number is that there were legitimate files late in the process (e.g., File:Beaulieu National Motor Museum Bluebird 15-10-2011 13-03-56.png, which was after 7 levels). Perhaps somewhere along that line there is a link that should be cut (docks -> shipbuilding?; or should the categories be renamed, or reversed?). Alternatively, maybe we could set up some sort of blacklist for categories not crawled. The thing is I don't want to implement any of this further until I go through the bot request, which I plan to do, as soon as Mr. Russavia gets back to me on what he wants the bot name to be. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I suppose it highlights a general problem of Commons' endless category trees. I cut Category:Wharves and quays -> Category:Dockwork for now. Personally, I wouldn't mind if File:Beaulieu National Motor Museum Bluebird 15-10-2011 13-03-56.png wasn't added by default. --  Docu  at 20:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
It just updated: it's amazing .. thanks again. If we could set up an equivalent of the "new article bot", we could also cover images that have a good description, but are not in corresponding categories yet. --  Docu  at 00:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes, that would be very easy. Isn't there already a bot though that tags images as uncategorized? Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:25, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Sure, but it just puts them all in one category each day. What I have in mind is something like w:User:AlexNewArtBot. --  Docu  at 07:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
What do you mean by puts them in one category? Isn't that what the dated parameter of {{subst:unc}} accomplishes? Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Meaning that, e.g. all of today's are in Category:Media needing categories as of 14 December 2011.
The idea was to have gallery of files that would include, e.g. "ship" in the description.
OTH, one might just as well use search. Sample: Special:Search/File: uncategorized (ship OR boat OR watercraft). This would miss out on images that are already in other unrelated categories though (Sample: location specific ones). --  Docu  at 12:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I still don't know what you're saying. Magog the Ogre (talk) 13:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm looking for something like w:User:AlexNewArtBot. --  Docu  at 19:45, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Just a few points about watercraft that could be differently:

In any case, thanks for setting this up. It's a great improvement compared to any alternatives we had before. --  Docu  at 05:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

  • OK, will do.
  • That's unexpected and clearly a bug. I'll look into fixing it.
  • I can fix the issue of poor subcategories once the bot request is officially approved (I will implement an editable blacklist). At this point, though, we'll have to deal problems. Please note that if you want, you can remove bad examples by hand - it won't goof up the script at all.
Magog the Ogre (talk) 14:24, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
If there was an easy way to plot the link between Watercraft and Hong Kong, I would just edit the tree to fix it, but the one available graphic tool works only for a limited number of levels. --  Docu  at 14:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Do you want that to be output automatically by the bot every time or do you just want me to output it all here? I can do a dump pretty easily. Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Here is a text dump of the past three days worth (have fun):
Magog the Ogre (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Fun structure. It goes something like Watercraft => Ferry =>=> Ferry pier =>=> Central Ferry Pier‎ => Streets in Central Ferry Pier =>=> Street .. => Building on Street .. => Stock Exchange =>=> Every company listed there => ..
Maybe a weekly dump is sufficient. It would allow to search if results get too far off target. --  Docu  at 20:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Somehow it didn't update today. Maybe this is related to the problems the servers had yesterday. --  Docu  at 07:36, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Almost certainly that is the problem; it probably timed out. I'll rerun it. Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Good to see it's back. Thanks! --  Docu  at 07:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Following the reorganization into subpages, it didn't update today. --  Docu  at 04:38, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

It was done just now. Thanks for maintaining it. --  Docu  at 04:47, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
It just did it because I saw your message and ran it. Face-wink.svg But I fixed it; I'd forgotten to change the command line arguments for the scheduler when I changed the program. Magog the Ogre (talk) 05:56, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. Seems like it went down again today. I wonder if it wouldn't easier if it used the same page every day and would simply move/delete or copy the list once a week. --  Docu  at 13:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't know why it didn't work, but my daily script of Commons images [1] didn't update either. It's possible the TS was down last night. I'll wait until overnight (UTC) and if not I'll ask for help from the TS admins. Magog the Ogre (talk) 21:36, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


I know we've disagreed, but thank you so much for adding some common sense to this DR. Fry1989 eh? 00:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Although you might like to know that I !voted delete on the other DR that Saibo submitted. Magog the Ogre (talk) 00:52, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that. I'm on the fence about it as well to be completely frank. But that somebody would think we need OTRS permission for somethign that's PD due to simplicity is peculiar. Fry1989 eh? 00:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, he was probably just annoyed (we all are prone to do irrational things when annoyed). On the latter one, you might have tried acknowledging his point but saying "it's ineligible, so it doesn't matter" (if you didn't). On the former, I don't know, because I don't want to read the history on your talk page unless necessary (it's a bit too much like reading gossip for me). I'm offering advice because I've worked in customer service and dealt with thousands of pissed off people, so I'm a borderline expert when it comes to defusing the anger and getting people to react better. Face-smile.svg Magog the Ogre (talk) 01:29, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
I understand absolutely. I was also annoyed though because Saibo had put speedy deletion tags on the files because he said they didn't have enough information on their copyrighted status. Problem is, they had licenses, so what he really should have done was a DR if he questioned if those licenses were correct or not, the tag he used is for when people upload files without any licenses whatsoever. After having to revert Saibo about a dozen times on two files and arguing with him on my page to finally get him to do a DR, I was so flustered I probably didn't handle properly Katarighe coming in and telling me I need OTRS permission for something that quite honestly OTRS wouldn't make a difference for. Either the file is safe for Commons, or it's copyrighted, I highly doubt the company would give OTRS for their copyrighted logo. Fry1989 eh? 01:36, 22 January 2012 (UTC)