Commons:Village pump/Copyright

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Welcome to the Village pump copyright section

This Wikimedia Commons page is used for general discussions relating to copyright and license issues, and for discussions relating to specific files' copyright issues. Discussions relating to specific copyright policies should take place on the talk page of the policy, but may be advertised here. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days and sections tagged with {{section resolved|1=~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives.

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File:Popov Ivan Vasilyevich.jpg Deletion

Why was it deleted this image? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Popov_Ivan_Vasilyevich.jpg It was a photo for identification. It was made by an anonymous photographer in the 1930s. Obviously, the author will never be known. In Russia works published prior to 1 January 1943 may also be in the public domain if: 1: author died before January 1, 1944... 2: they were published anonymously or under a pseudonym before January 1, 1943, and the name of the author did not become known during 50 years. -This case --Yokki

CC by-sa 3.0 and the use of an image in print

I feel a little stupid, asking that as a long-time contributer to Commons, but until now I had almost only to handle the re-use of images on the web. The question is: How can an image, licensed under CC by-sa 3.0, be legally reused for example on the cover of a book and advertising posters for such a book? Crediting the author and mentioning the license is no problem. But it requests, that if you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original. Does that mean, the book (just its cover or the whole "material"), posters etc. would have to licensed under CC by-sa 3.0 as well? --Tsui (talk) 08:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Short answer: no. This would only be required if somebody would create a new work based on your image. --Túrelio (talk) 08:18, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! But just make it clear (for me), because the excerpt from the license text I quoted above still confuses me. What does you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original mean? Which contributions are meant by that? The cover I mentioned would be based on the picture, but edited (colors, crop etc.) and graphical artwork, more than just the title, would be added. For a cover like this for example, given that the photo is CC by-sa 3.0, it would be sufficient, to mention the photographer and "CC by-sa 3.0" for the picture on the inside of the jacket, while the artwork as a whole would not be included in the license? --Tsui (talk) 08:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, yes, all illustrations which include any significant part of CC BY-SA image is CC BY-SA too. And you are prohibited to make any steps to protect somehow derivative works. To me it is clear from license text. Book text is copirated separately so CC BY-CA is not applicable to the text. F. e. you can scan any CC BY-SA derived picture in a book and post it with appropriate attribution, but you cannot post the same picture with text around it (scan and post the whole page). --Igel B TyMaHe (talk) 09:49, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sculptor wishes to donated images of copyrighted sculpture

This sculpture by artist David Cregeen has traditional copyright. The artist photographed it and applied a CC license to the photograph. Is it correct that the copyright of the sculpture is unchanged, and that other photographs of the work would not have CC licenses?

Hello. Can someone direct me to guidelines discussing how a sculptor may donate images of their copyrighted sculpture to Wikipedia? Here are some details -

  • There is a copyrighted sculpture
  • The artist wishes to retain traditional copyright on that sculpture
  • People routinely pay this artist licensing fees to publish photographs of this sculpture, and the artist wishes to retain the ability to collect these payments
  • The artist wishes to apply a CC-By license to a photo of this non-CC 3D artwork, and share the photo on Commons and Wikipedia
  • The artist does not want to give broad permission for others to publish their own photographs of the sculpture, as sculpture copyright must be retained
  • The goal is to apply a CC license to a photo which notes that single photo as CC licensed, and gives notice that the photo depicts a copyrighted artwork, and that only this photo and not the sculpture has a CC license

What are some of the precedents for this being done on Commons? Consider Category:David Cregeen - this artist has shared photographs of his sculptures and but the sculptures remain with traditional copyright. Is there any template which can be used to note that the sculpture remains copyrighted, and that this photograph on Wikimedia Commons is depicting a non-CC work? Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:48, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure that this is possible. Due to this bizare interpretation. If the author of a sculpture licences photographic reproductions of his work, he will inevitably release his 3D work under this license. So, I do recommend against donating such images. Ruslik (talk) 20:00, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This was discussed previously at Commons:Village_pump/Copyright/Archive/2015/04#Photos_of_street_art_on_Commons. Carl Lindberg did think it is possible to license a single view of a work. However it seems like a contradiction to say that a given photo has a free license that allows derivative works, but deriving a 3D work would be an infringement of the original sculpture. --ghouston (talk) 22:57, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The copyright in a photograph is based on things like the angle, framing, perhaps lighting, and other elements under the photographer's control. It has absolutely nothing to do with the object being photographed. So, a derivative work of a photograph must by definition include those elements; if the angle/framing/etc. are not present in a secondary work then it is not a derivative work of the photograph, and the photographer's permission is moot. However, such a work (and the original photograph) *can* still be derivative of the object being pictured. The sculptor can certainly license the work only as far as it appears in a photograph. In general, if the second work includes any expression beyond what is in the photograph, the second work would be a copyright problem. Almost any other photograph would probably use additional expression of the sculpture, and would not be OK (it's usually hard to replicate the angle *exactly*). The interesting question then is if someone uses *only* that photograph to try and re-create the original; does the license allow that, given the very liberal nature of the license. Or is it simply permission to allow that photograph to be licensed CC-BY-SA, such that derivatives of the photo are OK, but not works which lose all photographic elements, and does that allow the photograph to still be "free". I think it should be -- interpreting it otherwise is just harmful to me because it limits the amount of free material which can realistically be put out there -- but yes there could be arguments otherwise. Obviously, a photo of a 2-D work is different (it would be very hard to license a photo freely of that, unless it was lower resolution only, since the photo is basically a copy of the original and any license would have to be based on the original expression). But to me, an author can license a subset of the expression they own and not license the rest, and slice and dice it however they like. The subset may not qualify for registration at the U.S. Copyright Office separately than the registration of the original, but I don't see how that should affect the author's ability to license just what they want. The CC's interpretation as linked above is still bizarre to me and doesn't make much sense, unless they are more thinking of the 2-D situation where "licensing" a photographic copy basically means you are licensing the original expression, since a license has to be based on a copyright to begin with. Still, a lower-resolution-only photo should be OK, to me -- you can't stop people from making that version bigger once licensed with CC-BY[-SA], but you should be able to prevent a higher-resolution copy directly of the original work. (Although, you probably are not able to prevent someone making a similar painting if it is based only off the licensed photograph -- maybe *that* is the situation CC is thinking about.) A photograph of a sculpture though would qualify as a separate work, so the CC's interpretation on the image resolution stuff may not come into play. An sculptor can certainly license (or allow) just one particular photo or other derivative work, the question really is does the CC license in particular require also licensing the underlying expression. The CC interpretation actually seems to say that is OK -- it is more dangerous though in the case where the secondary work does not have a separate copyright, since in that case the license is really of the original expression. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:11, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You say that the things like the angle, framing, perhaps lighting, make up the photographer's copyright. So a sculptor (for example) can't give a license for any of those things, since they belong to the photographer. A sculptor can only give a license for the sculpture that's being photographed. They can put a CC license on their sculpture. But how can they license a particular view of the sculpture when the view is not theirs to license? --ghouston (talk) 05:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it would be easier if the sculptor took the photograph themself. --ghouston (talk) 05:13, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The sculptor *also* has derivative rights over the photograph. They can license *that*, basically. So they can give permission for that, without licensing the direct expression of the original. The question is if that is still free, though I'd probably say it is. But yes we also need a license for the photographer's copyright (which I assume we'd get from them). Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ruslik0, Clindberg, and Ghouston: Ruslik, your interpretation may be correct. I asked because I thought what you are saying might be correct, but I still am not sure and want further clarity so I am going to push a bit more. Carl and Ghouson, thanks for your comments. I am continuing this conversation at Commons_talk:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Clarity_about_photos_of_copyrighted_3D_art_.2F_sculptures with a proposal to change Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#3D_art_.28sculptures_etc..29 to reflect what is discussed here. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:24, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Clindberg: You seem to interpret the situation based on United States copyright law, where there are two separate concepts known as a 'copy of a work' and a 'copy of a derivative work of a work'. The situation may be entirely different in countries such as Sweden where there is only one concept, which is known as a 'copy of a work'. When Sweden implemented the InfoSoc Directive, there was some modification to the definition of the word 'copy', and a 'copy' means that you are including a work, in whole or in part, to the extent that at least some of the aspects which meet the threshold of originality are included. This means, for example, that a photograph of a building constitutes a 'copy' of the building. The European Court of Justice seems to use the same definition: in w:Infopaq International A/S v Danske Dagblades Forening, certain fragments consisting of eleven words from newspaper articles constituted 'copies' of the whole newspaper articles. The same rule therefore seems to apply to all EEA countries. This means that the sculpture, as erected in the park, constitutes the same 'work of copyright' as the sculpture as seen on the photograph. Since CC licences license 'works of copyright', this could mean that you license the entire sculpture under Swedish law even if you only intended to license the photograph. Also, Commons templates are sometimes a bit clumsy, saying that you license 'this work' without telling what 'this work' is. A photograph is usually not a 'work' under Swedish law, so a court might then try to see if there is something else in the image which constitutes a 'work'.
I guess that this is one of those really scary situations where the outcome depends on national definitions of concepts such as 'copy', 'work' and 'derivative work' and where you will get different results in different countries and where both the licensor and the licensee will have trouble finding out exactly what has been licensed and in which country it has been licensed. --Stefan4 (talk) 15:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
John Andersson (WMSE) I know that you live in Sweden, and you contributed to Commons:Wiki Loves Public Art 2013. I presume that people used Commons:Freedom of panorama#Sweden to justify taking the pictures. Stefan4 here is worrying that in Sweden in the process of photographing the works, the copyright status of the original work was changed. Was this discussed? What is your opinion on the effect of taking CC photographs of traditionally copyrighted sculptures? Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:20, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Danish pamphlet from 1953

Hello,

I've recently found this pamphlet on the Internet Archive (probably best to download it here as the uncompressed pdf file is huge), a sample image from which I'd like if possible to use for a Wikipedia article. Any thoughts? It's supposed to be free of copyright according to the Internet Archive, but I'm not convinced since it's so recent, especially as it seems not to have been uploaded by them but by a third party. There is no obvious copyright statement, though I don't read Danish. Blythwood (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think that a pamphlet published in 1953 is out of copyright? The normal copyright term is pma + 70 years. Ruslik (talk) 19:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the normal copyright term is pma + 50 years. Nine out of the 15 most populous nations, including the huge China, use pma + 50, and India and Venezuela use pma + 60. Population-wise, pma + 70 is third. Denmark is of course an EU nation that uses pma + 70 (and the Commons-important US is 95 years from publication/published after 1922).--Prosfilaes (talk) 20:44, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, the Internet Archive claim it's out of copyright. But do you think they have any basis for saying that? Blythwood (talk) 06:26, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Internet Archive lets anyone upload stuff, and doesn't have the overview that Commons does, much less actual checking like Project Gutenberg or the Library of Congress. Someone falsely uploaded it as public domain.--Prosfilaes (talk) 07:07, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Hadn't realised how careless they are so when I saw something this odd I wondered of there was something I'd missed. Blythwood (talk) 08:26, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free Wikimedia chapter files

In case you missed it, the Wikimedia Foundation finally joined the free content movement and released its logos under a free license in October last year. {{Copyright by Wikimedia}} has been modified to reflect this. All content on Commons must now be covered by a free license. The sole exception from that, which allowed non-free content if and only if the copyright was held by the Wikimedia Foundation, has been removed from our licensing policy.

A few templates based on the old wording of {{Copyright by Wikimedia}} remain in Category:License tags non-free. {{Copyright by Wikimedia Deutschland}} had very little usage, and I've put those files up for deletion unless they're published under a free license. After that, the template should be deleted as well.

Other templates have more high-profile usage. {{Copyright by Wikimedia Italia}} is used on ten files which in turn have a fair bit of usage. {{Copyright by Wikimedia Polska}} is only used for one file, which in turn is used on three pages.

Question 1: Were these tags for non-free content from Wikimedia chapters ever allowed by our licensing policy? The exception only mentioned content "copyrighted by the Wikimedia Foundation", and the Wikimedia chapters are legally independent of the Wikimedia Foundation, so I'm inclined to say no.

Question 2: Is the content that uses these tags covered by the Wikimedia Foundation's announcement and thus covered by a free license? Again, since the chapters are legally independent of the foundation, I'm inclined to say no.

(As for the other templates in Category:License tags non-free: to be continued.)

—LX (talk, contribs) 18:53, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking non-legally as a past Chapters Association chairman and a past chapter chairman; Wikimedia logos must be agreed through WMF legal. As such an "official" logo for a chapter falls under the chapters agreement and remain under the control of WMF legal. If a chapter misuses the logo, maybe print it on underpants to sell on eBay, then WMF legal can break the agreement and remove the authority for a chapter to use Wikimedia logos. Hence,
Question 1: No apart from the logos above. The potentially varying nature of Chapters (and Thematic orgs or legally created other bodies) means that a blanket agreement does not exist.
Question 2: No apart from the logos above. As you say, Chapters, et al, are entirely legally independent and the WMF does not create new agreements on their behalf.
Of course this is just me talking. If WMF legal say something on the matter then they are correct.
--Fæ (talk) 19:04, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem grandfathering in old files. I don't think the removal was really intended to affect existing files; it was a single editor wondering about the exception which really shouldn't apply for future uploads, then making the edit once pointed to the historical context for that exception. I would rather the license be changed, so definitely ask around to see if the licensing was a mistake (like I think it was in the case of the non-logo t-shirts) or has simply not been updated. I don't think there is any need to disrupt any existing activities using them though. Simply mark the template as not to be used for future uploads, and encourage re-licensing any existing images. Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:20, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As the user who removed it: I didn't knew the logos werent under a free license before, until the blog post was shown to me. And even then I expected it to be from 2010 or so and didn't look to the timestamp, so I didn't expect there could be still any file using this exception. And I still believe not even WMF should host nonfree files here. But I don't think we need to immediatly delete them. Rather ask the authors to rerelease the files under a free license and after some time (maybe end of the year? should really be enough time) send the still unfree files through the normal deletion process, but I don't expect the latter to be necassary. And I really hope no one gets superbanned for this… --Nenntmichruhigip (talk) 01:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Coats of arms of municipalities of Guatemala

Many of these images seem to pass COM:TOO, but I can't find much information about the copyright status of Guatemalan government works (likely non-free), or insignia/legislation (less likely). Any ideas? Storkk (talk) 09:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Non-attribution

This is a general query. I have noticed a web site using Wikimedia images (and Wikipedia text) without acknowledging the Wiki source, and, in the case of pictures, its Wikimedia user uploader, though not me. I sent a message to the web master stating that the source should be mentioned, but to no avail... unmitigated misuse prevails. As a prolific uploader to Commons I am now having reservations over continuing, not because I don't want to give free use, but that it would be proper to assure appropriate attribution.

Questions:

  • regardless of Creative Commons attribution level, are further users of our pictures fully obliged to acknowledge the Wikimedia and uploader source?
  • if attribution is not mentioned by third party users, does Wikimedia have a mechanism to attempt this attribution for its many hard working charitable uploaders? (I can't think this cannot be the case as there would be no point in bothering to have attributable Creative Commons upload restrictions that are toothless... we might as well upload them to our own web sites or social networking sites to be abused)
  • if Wikimedia doesn't provide this obviously-needed protection for its volunteers, what is the tightest form of Creative Commons licence allowed, that gives free use but has the most restrictive conditions, to perhaps compel attribution?
  • if Wikimedia absolves itself over protection of its volunteers' images, what kind of wording can be suggested to add to the Image summary stressing the necessity of attribution?
  • if Wikimedia is so lacking, what advice can be given to uploaders to pursue for themselves the abuse of their images without what many volunteers would see as proper help from Wikimedia?

Acabashi (talk) 21:01, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's no license that can "compel attribution", or compel anything else. Once your photos are on the Internet, anybody can potentially use them in any way they like. It would be the same if they were marked "all rights reserved". However copyright law makes use of copyrighted works without a license illegal, and a copyright holder can potentially take legal action against people who violate their copyright (although this may be restricted to a take-down notice in the USA due to DMCA). Personally I have no intention of taking legal action against anybody over my photos, and don't care about attribution, so I use CC0 to reflect this reality (and for other reasons). Others may decide that they don't want to take legal action against anybody, but still use a more restricted license so that at least law-abiding publishers (and those who will respond to complaints) will give them credit. --ghouston (talk) 23:02, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the first point, there’s no general legal obligation to credit sources. Some reusers need or wish to do so for provenance or verification; for others it’s a matter of courtesy. Even where the licence requires attribution, the WMF claims no ownership or credit for the content it hosts on behalf of the licensors. Nor will it directly defend contributors‘ rights in cases of licence violations by third parties (although its legal department may be able to offer some advice, assistance, or referrals). The most restrictive licence we allow here is CC-BY-SA, requiring not only attribution but that further reuse be licensed under the same terms. Nevertheless, as ghouston suggests above, to those who disregard intellectual property it makes no difference whether the licence says © ALL RIGHTS RESERVED or {{WTFPL}}.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 00:17, 4 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Acabashi When Wikipedia's CC-By content is reused without attribution it is no different from someone stealing content from a newspaper, book, or museum. The rights of the copyright holder are violated in this case.
The Wikimedia Foundation provide no support in policing misuse. The Wikimedia community could someday provide policing and enforcement support, and this has been discussed, but there is no project which has ever been viable and which provides this support. I would like to see such a project established someday. Creative Commons likewise has no community which provides this support.
Most commonly, when a Wikimedia contributor writes to the organization which is misusing the content and requests for them to correct their error, then if they are a respectable organization, then they correct it voluntarily. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:09, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Old photos with unclear dates

I've been expanding the wikipedia article on Blagdon Lake and came across a set of images on flickr (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/hairnicks/sets/72157632055767067/ ) showing the construction. Construction of the reservoir was between 1898 and 1905 however no dates are given for the original images. The flickr page says the images were from (but not explicitly taken by) someone who "died recently", however I'm not sure of the ownership or copyright status. Would they be allowed on commons under PD old or similar licences?Rodw (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If this is the first publication, then almost certainly no. They would have had to be *published* a long time ago for that. If this is the first publication, they are probably still under copyright of some form -- if the author is known, the copyright lasts that person's lifetime and 70 more years in both the UK and the US. If it is possible to figure out which ancestor took them, then that would be the basic term. If the author is unknown, the U.S. term is the earlier of 95 years from publication, and 120 years from creation, so we aren't there yet, unless they were actually published around the time they were taken. For the UK, the basic term with an unknown author would actually be expired (70 years from publication, but if not published within 70 years, then 70 years from creation, since these were photos taken before 1957, and that would be expired). Unfortunately... if this is the first publication, in either case (known or unknown author) then in the UK it is either under copyright for that regular term, or subject to a 25-year "publication right" which occurs when a work is first published when it is no longer covered by either of the regular copyright terms. So, if this is the first publication, it would most likely be under some form of protection in both the UK and the US. The only chance would be to identify the author, and show that the photos were put on Flickr when it was still within 70 years from when that person died, but is now beyond that term -- that would then be beyond the regular terms, plus avoid the UK publication right. If these were published a long time ago, then the situation would probably change, but it sounds like these were private photos until put up on Flickr a few years ago so I'm guessing they weren't. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:03, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

licensing vs. attribution vs. credit

If I paid a photographer to take a photo, I own it I think. It's been printed a lot and never with a copyright notice. Nonetheless, it is courteous to indicate "Credit: John Smith" or "Photo: John Smith" somewhere in a caption or credit line (in my experience) and I always do so. But if someone wanted to contact the "owner" or "copyright holder" he or she should contact me. (I have in mind the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license. So it's not like I expect a whole lot of e-mails on this.)

It's easy enough to credit the photographer in a caption in a wikipedia article. Is that how I should do this? He won't be the one granting a license.

Or if it says, "Mary Jones, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publishes it under the following licenses: ..." can the attribution then read "Photo: John Smith"? Should it? Or should the attribution be "Mary Jones (John Smith, photographer)" or something like that?

Or is there some approach I'm not thinking of?

If I'm in the wrong forum, please forgive me and point me in the right direction?

Many thanks. Valuenyc (talk) 23:18, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The copyright rules for commissioned works vary per country. The copyright holder will often be the photographer, but sometimes its the person who paid for it. For Commons if the work is still in copyright you need an actual license from the copyright holder, just giving them attribution isn't sufficient. --ghouston (talk) 23:45, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The default copyright rules can also be overridden by any contract you signed with the photographer. --ghouston (talk) 23:47, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Based on your user name and a bit of Googling, I'm assuming you're based in the United States. Under US copyright law, paying for a photograph to be taken does not make you the copyright holder, unless the photographer is your employee (rather than a contractor) or you have a written contract explicitly stating that the resulting work is a work made for hire. Similarly, a transfer of copyright after creation also requires an agreement in writing. See en:Work for hire#Law in the United States for details. As already mentioned, only the legitimate copyright holder can issue a valid copyright license. —LX (talk, contribs) 13:42, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that you own the copyright in someone else's work (either because it's a work for hire, or the contract results in you owning it), the photographer's name doesn't need to be given, unless that too is part of the contract, e.g. "Buyer hereby agrees that all uses by Buyer and licensees will be accompanied by Photographer's name"; as far as Commons policy is concerned, you just need the copyright holder's identity. That's why it's always fine to attribute a corporate author; if the New York Times released its website under CC-BY-4.0, we'd be able to upload http://graphics8.nytimes.com/adx/images/ADS/40/85/ad.408508/CRS-7044_DigiCore_970x90_Retina.jpg with no attribution beyond "Work of the New York Times". Of course, if you know the photographer's name, it's pretty much always a good idea to include it; pretty much everything in Category:Historic American Buildings Survey is PD-USGov, making the author's name irrelevant for copyright purposes, but because we provide the author's name when known, we're able to have pages like Category:Jet Lowe and Category:Louise Taft. Nyttend (talk) 22:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

File:3FM.png

Is it acceptable to use another wiki site as the source for an image? Wiki sites are generally not considered to be reliable sources for content on Wikipedia since they are user generated pages. Can the copyright information for an image be verified from a user generated page? - Marchjuly (talk) 04:39, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it would be no different to other hosting sites such as Flickr, Panoramio or Facebook. It's probably OK if there's no reason to think the information isn't accurate. --ghouston (talk) 05:25, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For 3FM.png, you can verify that it matches the original source: http://www.3fm.nl/live/. --ghouston (talk) 05:32, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It depends. If the other wiki is the original source and it's licensed there, then it's just as good as an original upload here, where we assume good faith (something you can't do with encyclopedia content, a completely different situation). If the image existed elsewhere previously, and we are relying on a free license like CC, then no the wiki upload probably would not be good enough (it would be Commons:License laundering). In this particular case, the claim is that there is no copyrightable authorship in the logo itself, which means you don't need any source -- all the information you need to make that determination is included in the uploaded content itself. I'm... borderline on that PD-textlogo question, but the source doesn't matter a bit in this case. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:35, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pele Bicycle Kick

I am currently working on the Bicycle Kick article for the English Wikipedia. The famous football (soccer) player Pele performed an iconic bicycle kick (see image). This picture would be amazing in the Bicycle Kick article. Does anyone know if this image is copyrighted or in the public domain; if it is on the latter, what PD tag works for it? Thanks in advance!--MarshalN20 (talk) 22:49, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Uniqueness or greatness of events don't negate copyright status. If you can find someone who took a photograph of the event and is willing to license that photograph under a commons-compatible license, that would be amazing. Otherwise, various local wikis that allow for Fair Use, which is a copyright exception (actually a legitimized defense) in laws such as those of the US, will have to make do with local copies. Storkk (talk) 23:13, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
According to this site and a few others, the photo was taken during a game against Belgium in 1968, and so is most likely going to be under copyright for a long time to come (assuming the game was actually in Belgium, it'll be under copyright until 70 years after the photographer's death). Revent (talk) 23:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for answering the question Revent! That is unfortunate news, but good to know.
I appreciate the response Storkk. I doubt that I can find someone who took a photo of the event.
Regards.--MarshalN20 (talk) 00:11, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently it was actually June 2 1965, and the game was in Brazil at the Maracanã. The photograph was taken by Alberto Ferreira, who died in 2007 at age 75. I think Brazilian photographs are 70 years from publication. So... 2036. For the U.S., 2061 unless it was published in the US within 30 days of it being published in Brazil. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you're thinking of using it under fair use on a project that allows it, note that this version seems to be mirrored compared to other versions and other photos of the same moment. —LX (talk, contribs) 07:55, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Great information! Thank you, Carl and LX. I probably will not use it since I cannot establish a good reason for fair use. Other photographs are available that also do a great job in depicting the bicycle kick. If the Internet is still in existence (and Wikipedia as well) by 2061, I suppose the new editors will be able to make use of Pele's photograph (I am sure that he will still be considered a sports legend by then). Regards.--MarshalN20 (talk) 00:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I thought he was already. Sorry my info was a bit off, I'm not a soccer fan, just tried to hunt down what I could. Revent (talk) 00:34, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

File:Usvw logo.gif

Logo is licensed as "own work", but says that it is owned and sourced by USV Weitersfeld. This does seem more likely to be a non-free logo than something created by the uploader.

File:Usv-weitersfeld kampfmannschaft-herbst2010.JPG also was uploaded by the same uploader, but once again the author and the source of the image are listed as USV Weitersfeld. No OTRS permission is provided, so no way to tell for sure if this was taken a photo taken by the uploader or was taken from another website.

For reference, neither image is currently being used in any Wikipedia articles. - Marchjuly (talk) 07:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Right. Tagged with "no permission" and "request for deletion". As this contributor is not active, there is little chance that a permission is received unless someone else take care of it. Regards, Yann (talk) 07:53, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FoP in UAE

Aloha everyone. Do we any news about FOP in UAE? Reason is, we have a few DRs waiting to be processed. See: Commons:Deletion requests/2015/06/23. --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 17:11, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I wish to upload a picture taken by a photographer who has directly given me the file, it is therefore not present on the internet and I cannot put any URL as a source... What should I write in the "Source" section? Moreover, the photographer allows me to upload this picture on Commons, is that okay if I simply write ©Name of the photographer? Or does he need to grant me a specific license? I suppose he does but which template should I then use? Thank you very much,Wikipediaval (talk) 10:29, 8 July 2015 (UTC+7)

Hi, Yes, the photographer needs to grant a free license (CC-BY or CC-BY-SA is the best for pictures). As the source, add "given by <photographer>". Most importantly, you need to send a permission to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org (see COM:OTRS for details). Regards, Yann (talk) 08:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Are those files DM

Hello,

There is an OTRS-ticket for the following files:

There is a valid release for the photographs but the photograph contains several bookcovers which of course have a copyright of their own. I am not sure if those covers are DM or not. More opinions? Natuur12 (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I would think they are, they covers themselves (or really, the copyrightable portions of the covers, since parts of some are just 'generic') aren't really the focus of the images... none is specifically the central object, they are not in sharp focus, and are each 'individually' of such low resolution that you wouldn't be able to usefully extract them. I think the thing to keep in mind about something like this is that in the case of each 'individual' copyrighted work that is included, removing it would not itself affect the subject matter of the image... removing them as a 'set' would, but that indicates the subject matter is the scene 'as a whole', not any particular component. So yes, de minimis, IMO. Revent (talk)

Laws that apply to an old image from Barre de Saint Venant (France, 18th and 19th century)

I'm trying to illustrate some articles on spanish project about Adhémar Jean Claude Barré de Saint-Venant and some of his equations and maybe others articles on other projects. Given Barré de Saint Venant death in 1886, most of the images found from him had many years but I'm not sure exactly how many.

Some of the images that I found are in sites like those:

All of this images looks to have near to 100 years or maybe more, but I'm not sure about the source or the laws that apply. Specially about French law because Bárre de Saint Venant born and died in France during 19th century and maybe all these images are under French law.

Thanks in advance for your help, --Tecsie|(Talk) 19:07, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think they are all in public domain everywhere. Ruslik (talk) 19:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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