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Welcome to the Village pump proposals section

This page is used for proposals relating to the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons; it is distinguished from the main Village pump, which handles community-wide discussion of all kinds. The page may also be used to advertise significant discussions taking place elsewhere, such as on the talk page of a Commons policy. Recent sections with no replies for 30 days and sections tagged with {{section resolved|1=~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives.

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SpBot archives all sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=~~~~}} after 1 day and sections whose most recent comment is older than 30 days.

Proposal to run a bot to archive every external link using the Internet Archive on Wikimedia Commons[edit]

(Prior discussion Commons:Bots/Work requests#Internet Archive preservation of external links.)

The Wayback machine already works on most major Wikimedia websites.

Dear fellow contributors,

I am proposing to let a bot run on every file on Wikimedia Commons and other relevant pages which utilise external links and archive these links using the Internet Archive for future reference in the same way it is currently done on many other Wikimedia websites. This will allow for license reviewers and re-users to have a point of reference files from external sources as linkrot may obfuscate their original licenses and make it harder to verify them.

For a good (current) example where a changed source page is affecting the license of formerly free files please see "User:Alexis Jazz/DWDD archief". --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Votes (archiving external links)[edit]

  1. Symbol support vote.svg Support, obviously as the proposing agent. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
  2. Symbol support vote.svg Support This seems useful. --Yann (talk) 11:39, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
  3. Symbol support vote.svg Support Good idea. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 11:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
  4. Symbol support vote.svg Support, I hope they can handle the traffic.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 12:27, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
  5. Symbol support vote.svg Support - Sounds like a great idea!, Although somewhat unrelated I run this tool all the time at EN (which can replace all dead and alive links with WebArchive) - As noted above given licences can and do change I would support this little gem. –Davey2010Talk 20:34, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
  6. Symbol support vote.svg Support. Archive should be done within minutes. This is also useful for Iranian websites which publish content, but occasionally remove them within hours (sometimes at the behest of "censorship office"). For example see File:Pir Shalyar 20190202 06.jpg which no longer can be license-reviewed. Neither Google cache [1] nor Bing cache [2] nor Internet Archive [3] could save the work in time. File:Mahnaz Afshar 20190201 01.jpg is another example which was fortunately saved using Google cache. In this case the problem was apparently violation of dress code. 4nn1l2 (talk) 08:43, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  7. Symbol support vote.svg Support Common sense idea. This also will help prevent DRs and "no source" tagging. Abzeronow (talk) 14:52, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
  8. Symbol support vote.svg Support This consensus helps to ensure that later housekeeping or bot maintainers can more easily handle complaints, related to what is likely to affect millions of files. Where there are specialized issues, such as "hot" websites where the quoted source is at risk of being taken down, these may need bot tasks negotiated that periodically rerun. For very large stable collections, like Geograph or the British Library, these can run relatively slowly as background maintenance, and it hardly matters whether a new upload waits to have its links added to WBM for a few months. -- (talk) 12:03, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
  9. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support yes please. --Jarekt (talk) 12:59, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  10. Symbol support vote.svg Support and for robots sites [4] go to archive.is -- Slowking4 § Sander.v.Ginkel's revenge 14:12, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  11. Symbol support vote.svg Support This would be a good prevention of linkrot. De728631 (talk) 20:53, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  12. Symbol support vote.svg Support Platonides (talk) 23:59, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
  13. Symbol support vote.svg Support Blue Elf (talk) 23:10, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
  14. Symbol support vote.svg Support Bj.schoenmakers I'm already using this to preserve copyright information on sites where people can adjust their own copyright on images. My upload-bot will post the url to waybackmachine/archive.org first and use the returned date in my template in the commons upload: for example {{Archive.orgTimeStamp|20190303145847|https://world.observation.org/foto/view/19508795}} —Preceding comment was added at 00:10, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
  15. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support Very good idea Vulphere 15:13, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
  16. Symbol support vote.svg Support IMO very good Proposal -- Eatcha (Talk-Page ) 18:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
  17. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support --oSeveno (User talk) 15:35, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
  18. Symbol support vote.svg Support but see my comment below. Ankry (talk) 11:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
  19. Symbol support vote.svg Support --Molgreen (talk) 09:26, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
  20. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong supportGone Postal ( ) 10:56, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
  21. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support --Hmxhmx 14:49, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
  22. Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support MorganKevinJ(talk) 03:15, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Discussion (archiving external links)[edit]

How should this best be implemented? Is the page "User:Fæ/Wayback" developed by a good model? Personally I propose "[EXTERNAL LINK] (ARCHIVE, retrieved: DD-MM-YYYY)". --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:13, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: "{{Wayback|url=http%3A//trainpix.org/photo/122696/|date=20150316101047}}" (implemented as "archive copy at the Wayback Machine (archived on 16 March 2015)" on File:143, Sverige, Stockholm, Roslagsbanans depå (Trainpix 122696).jpg) is standardized and looks nicer, you can discuss on Template talk:Wayback if you disagree.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 12:38, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: indeed, that looks way better, and having a standard template for Internet Archive Wayback Machine links would also make it easier to be consistent. Face-smile.svg I honestly wasn't aware of the existence of "{{Wayback}}", this would make implementing the above proposal easier as well. Face-grin.svg --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) ill have (Articles 📚) 12:48, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
Though some earlier wayback additions were the links only, and others like Fortepan have the WBM link added as part of a specialized collection template, the largest collection so far, the Portable Antiquities Scheme uploads are using the preexisting wayback template. See File:BUCKLE_(FindID_187883).jpg or File:Cavalry Soldiers rehearse live-fire exercises with Lithuanian partners 141118-A-QS211-838.jpg for examples of how this looks. -- (talk) 11:57, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

I do not understand the proposal. Are we voting on something that will be done on the Wayback-homepage? --Schlurcher (talk) 12:47, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

@Schlurcher:, this proposal is so that all external links could be backed up using the Wayback Machine using a bot, this would create a snapshot of the external website which future people could use to confirm the licenses of files. For example I import a photograph from Amazingfreepictures.fr (example website) but then this website disappears a year later, a license reviewer then tries to confirm the license but can't, now this image will have to be deleted because its free license can’t be confirmed (see “COM:PCP”), now if this external website was backed up using the Internet Archive this file would not have to be deleted. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 21:04, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
@Donald Trung: or you could use some examples that actually happened: Commons:Village pump#License reviewers and admins help is needed ASAP (we got lucky with that one and everything could be reviewed in time), Category:Images from lasvegasvegas.com and Category:Photographs by Agencia Brasil. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 21:36, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure why this is still being discussed, but Internet Archive is already doing this and we have stats that nearly all the links we have in file descriptions are already archived. Nemo 08:59, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Could you provide a link to the stats, or a link to where someone has confirmed that the tool is crawling Wikimedia Commons, not just Wikipedia? Seconds before I write this, this WBM link is being added to a DoD photograph uploaded in 2016, it was not on the IA until I added it today. The majority of the Commons images I am adding WBM links for are not already on the IA. You may be confusing the undocumented exercise to add all Featured Pictures to the WBM with doing it for everything else. As a quick test using a sample of 1,000 files, the ratio of 'already on IA' to 'not on IA' for the DoD project is 42%, and most have been hosted on Commons for several years; in that time quite a large number have suffered with linkrot (for non-DVIDs sources), so are already too late for the WBM. -- (talk) 09:16, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: I just saw your comments, is this already true for Wikimedia Commons? Because I imported a couple of hundred files from a University which just completely changed how its URL's work and now all of the old URL's don't function anymore, would the InternetArchiveBot immediately recognise them in the Internet Archive? Or aren't these links archived yet? --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 18:34, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

While I generally support the idea, I am a bit afraid that IA ban us when we try to archive large bunch of external webpages. Especially if a user intentionally adds a bunch of links (not necessarily related to the uploaded file) in the file description page. IMO, the better solution would be to archive the links somewhere in Wikimedia (and not necessarily make them available to the whole public). Ankry (talk) 11:09, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I created over 400,000 links on IA over a couple of weeks as part of housekeeping my Commons upload projects, if their interface is being used correctly, I doubt anyone would get access blocked. As for using Wikimedia, it was confirmed on the Wikimedia-l email list that there are no plans or strategy in place by the WMF to maintain any public archives, ever. If Wikimedia Commons went offline next month, there is zero guarantee that the WMF would give public access to an archive, while the Internet Archive explicitly guarantees it, with a strategy behind it for 100 years. -- (talk) 11:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Enable convert-to-DR button for everyone[edit]

According to our deletion policy, when anyone disagrees with the speedy deletion of a particular file, they should "convert to a regular deletion request".

I never quite understood how I was supposed to do that. There were signs that it was possible. Now that I became a filemover, the buttons suddenly appeared! It's part of AjaxQuickDelete, which is enabled by default, but ordinary users don't get DR conversion buttons.

As the policy says anyone who disagrees should convert, I propose we make the "Convert to DR" button available to anyone. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 15:48, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Enable convert-to-DR button for everyone: votes[edit]

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support as proposer. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 15:48, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Makes sense. --Yann (talk) 16:52, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 16:54, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Sounds sensible. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:07, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support.--Vulphere 17:19, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support. It's in MediaWiki:Gadget-AjaxQuickDelete.js in the section commented with "// Install AjaxMoveButton for filemovers and administrators". It'd be nice to know why this restriction was thought necessary. Can it be abused in some way? Perhaps Rillke would know, having done much work on the gadget. --ghouston (talk) 01:12, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg weak support The rules may be applied, but "anyone" seems very large and I guess many non-productive discussions will overwhelm us so police may be reviwed. Millennium bug (talk) 03:01, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, seriously, why are such basic (handy) features always hidden away from "untrusted" users? This would be really useful for everyone. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --El Grafo (talk) 08:45, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --GPSLeo (talk) 11:21, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --Hmxhmx 14:50, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support the original proposal. BA candidate.svg Weak oppose the 'I challenge, let's discuss this' tag, since that discussion is really indistinguishable with what would be happening at a Deletion Request anyhow. ℺ Gone Postal ( ) 04:38, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Enable convert-to-DR button for everyone: discussion[edit]

Discuss details for this proposal here.

I was perplexed why many people were obviously using some kind of script that converted the thing but I could not see the button. Why was it reserved for filemovers? It should be enabled for all autopatrollers.--Roy17 (talk) 17:21, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
{{LangSwitch|en='''Challenge speedy deletion'''<br>start a regular deletion request/discussion instead|nl='''Maak bezwaar tegen directe verwijdering<br>start een regulier verwijderingsverzoek/discussie|zh|zh-hant|yue=反對快速刪除<br>改提刪除討論}}
Rillke also suggested not to make the "remove this tag" available for everyone, and I agree. Wasn't part of the proposal either. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 11:38, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
All of those changes seem reasonable to me. Kaldari (talk) 11:41, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
I added Chinese translations to Alexis Jazz's code. It means oppose speedy deletion, change to deletion discussion.--Roy17 (talk) 17:21, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Proposal typing aid[edit]

When somebody uses e.g. the de:WP it should be well known that there are many 'search' abbreviations; as an example, H:T will make some suggested expansions, like Hilfe:Tabellen, or H:V like Hilfe:Vorlagen. That simplifies the access to many pages - not only to Help pages.
Spoiled by such comfort, I am missing a comparable service in the commons, where I am doing a lot. On busy days I type hundreds times the long namespaces Template: or Category:, wishing it would as well be possible with only T: or C:. To install such a possibility could not be a problem to the relevant people!
In the English language, many terms are pleasantly short (Help, File, User); really longs things are abbreviated (i18n); I just miss the mentioned cases - therefore I ask the community about that idea. -- sarang사랑 15:07, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

@Sarang: C: is not desirable because this is the recommended interwiki code for Commons. We have COM:, templates can be linked with {{Tl}} and when using templates you don't usually need to enter Template:. See also COM:Shortcuts. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 16:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. Ok, C: is not desirable, I understand that it is the wrong example. But when I want to enter a special template, or category, I always have to type the full namspace: first. I know that we have short-named templates, like {{C}}, {{F}}, {{T}}, {{U}}. But that's only for using/linking them - not for searching. -- sarang사랑 16:41, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support aliases T for template, CAT for category, and MOD for module. 4nn1l2 (talk) 20:21, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
    @4nn1l2: I think T could be risky with possible future interwiki shortcuts. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 20:28, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
    @Alexis Jazz: I guess that is the problem of future, not now. In my opinion, WMF already hosts too many projects, and new projects should not be added too easily, and I guess we have not had a new project for many years (excluding Wikidata). 4nn1l2 (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support the aliases mentioned by @4nn1l2, plus U for User, F for File, and T suffixes for associated talk namespaces (UT for User Talk, GT for Gallery Talk due to conflict with Template).   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 20:33, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - Why not ? I'm too lazy to write the full word. -- Eatcha (talk) 10:29, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I only support t for template and cat for category. Inclined to oppose the others. Use shorthands only for the most frequent words.--Roy17 (talk) 19:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support.--Vulphere 10:02, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, but with reservations, mostly because of the multilingual nature of Wikimedia Commons, we should try to support as much language as possible while trying to avoid confusion while implementing this. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:14, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support CAT for categories would be very useful --Ruthven (msg) 14:31, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Add Speed controls in native Wikimedia video player and change the interface to look like YouTube/Vimeo ?[edit]

Hello,

Did you ever noticed any difference while playing videos on Commons and on YouTube/Vimeo ? If not try playing File:LE PAYS BASQUE ( Biarritz, Bayonne, St Jean de Luz...) - FRANCE.webm on commons and here on YouTube. There is not speed control option on commons and the interface looks decades old. Take a look at https://plyr.io/ (SOURCE) it's open-source, can be used by Commons and its interface is way better than ours. I doubt this ancient video player is one of the reason we don't have many videos. Check the difference in number of CC and PD of videos on commons and YouTube, you will be surprised. Please discuss this issue and support the option that you like.-- Eatcha (talk) 10:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Discuss below this line[edit]

If you have a better Idea please don't hesitate to create a poll for that below. -- Eatcha (talk) 10:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

@Eatcha: We already have a new video player coming per this edit, check it out.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 10:54, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
@Jeff G.: thanks, but will this include playbackRates ? -- Eatcha (talk) 11:09, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
per phab:T174393, Speed controls are not ready yet, but is not hard to enable in new player -- Eatcha (talk) 15:09, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
Tips for now: when playing videos, right click on the player and you should be able to choose between 0.25x and 2x. Or use an extension/add-on. I do support revamp of the media player though.--Roy17 (talk) 19:02, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
I am curious what you use playback speed controls for though.. Personally I've never used these for anything other than podcasts and watching content over 30minutes long.. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:13, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Update the entire interface, similar to YouTube using open-source players E.g. plyr.io[edit]

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support -- As the proposer -- Eatcha (talk) 10:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment - This is already being done: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T148103. Kaldari (talk) 03:31, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, to show that there is community consensus for the changes being made. Today, if I see that a video was originally posted to YouTube and I find it here, then I will follow the link to YouTube because it has a better video player interface. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 12:18, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Check your Beta preferences ;) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
    • While I like the new player in beta, you have to know how to use your context menu in order to set playback speed. Also Plyr's menu look and feel is lovely and it offers timeline preview images :) -- Rillke(q?) 22:48, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Geograph 2?[edit]

Commons has plenty of images of the British Isles thanks to imports from Geograph. As most of these uploads were done long ago, it might be worth doing another bulk upload. Jura1 (talk) 23:02, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely not, unless they are significantly better than their previous standards. People standing in front of buildings does not constitute a picture of a building. Churches are not generally angled at about 5 degrees off the vertical. The British Isles has, occasionally, some daylight, so it should be possible to see the subject, and in focus. Unless we can get resolution somewhere above at least 5MP, and uploads are filtered for quality, it just makes work for us to do later. Rodhullandemu (talk) 00:00, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
I agree: better than a bulk upload, we prefer to target good quality pictures. --Ruthven (msg) 09:27, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Maybe it would be worth looking at a sample category: Category:Twr Mawr Llanddwyn Lighthouse
    • The category has currently 12 images: 1 from Panoramio, 1 from the NLW, 2 direct uploads and 8 from geograph.org.uk.
    • Except maybe for 2 or 3 similar pictures, from a mere user perspective, the group together gives a good impression of the topic. If we didn't have the geograph ones, this wouldn't be so.
    • Obviously, a series of featured pictures to showcase and possibly print poster-size would enhance it further, but at least we have a good basis to illustrate the topic.
    • It's somewhat regrettable that there are no people in any of the pictures as otherwise one could get a better sense of the size of the building.
    • A non-minor problem of Category:Twr Mawr Llanddwyn Lighthouse is that the most recent picture is from 2010. One could get the impression that the lighthouse remains stuck in the last decade.
As digital photograph evolved since the last decade, I think the resolution of recent geograph images is higher. Jura1 (talk) 10:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
I would dearly love to get more recent Geograph pictures into Commons, but I think a bulk import of the 4 million missing pictures would probably be unwise. In addition to the quality issues mentioned by Rodhullandemu (which I think will be less for newer pictures), there's the simple matter that a fair proportion even of technically good pictures will be out of scope: there are only so many pictures of oilseed rape fields in East Anglia that Commons needs. Another problem is categorisation: it's only within the last year that the last of the 2010/11 batch was categorised, and plenty still need review. On the other hand, relying on individual uploads means we miss an awful lot of worthwhile pictures: Commons users are uploading images from Geograph at a little over 1% the rate that Geograph is gaining them (60-odd over the past week vs 6000-odd). The other 99% can't all be bad. --bjh21 (talk) 11:08, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Maybe structured data could simplify if not avoid manual categorization entirely. Jura1 (talk) 14:38, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Support a bulk upload. These are useful photos to have here, even if it would be better to have higher resolution versions. Targeting pictures to upload would miss out quite a few photos that turn out to be useful a while after they have been uploaded, and wouldn't have otherwise been spotted/used. The particularly good thing with this set of photos is that they all come with coordinates, so they can be put into the category tree by location right from the start, and then be migrated into the more specific categories. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:15, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
Oh My! "They all come with coordinates!" better, "some come with correct coordinates". You wouldn't believe some of the howlers I've seen in and around Liverpool Geograph images of late. They'd have been better sticking a pin in a map. It's not helped that {{Geogroup}} has been changed to only show the top-level, and its developer isn't talking to anyone. Rodhullandemu (talk) 17:32, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
But you could tell that they were images from Liverpool? That's already a good start. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:29, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I agree that the Geograph import has been a clear net positive for our coverage and quality, as I keep bumping into topics which would be very poorly illustrated without it. It would be nice if someone could achieve a new import, maybe with some heuristics to avoid uploading photos of areas which might already be "crowded". Nemo 19:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support, bulk uploads will always be added to a maintenance category and while most images will be high quality educational images a few images will be nominated for deletion by those doing the maintenance, the benefits of hosting those images largely outweigh any negatives from them. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:41, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
  • It's been a while since I ran GeographBot. I think I uploaded (the first) 1.8 million images and they currently have over 6 million images. The categorizatin would need attention when the remaining are imported. When I did the import we didn't have Wikidata so now it should be easier. Fort the new files, we could add some structured data right away. I would first start with setting up an incremental bot that just uploads everything from Geograph, but lags behind say 3 months (to prevent junk to be instantly mirrored here). When that's working fine, it can do the bulk. What is the quality of reverse geocoding these days for the UK? The flow would be coordinate -> reverse geocoding -> Geonames or similar id -> Wikidata item -> Commons category. Multichill (talk) 21:54, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Gallery pages policy update[edit]

On Commons:Galleries, replace:

"Galleries without media are not galleries at all. They are considered out of the project scope and meet the criteria for speedy deletion."

with:

"A "gallery" with less than two files is not a gallery at all. Contributions consisting solely of text can be made in descriptions, captions, Wikipedia, Wiktionary and other projects. Pages that are created as galleries but have less than two media files are considered out of the project scope and meet the criteria for speedy deletion."

On Commons:Criteria for speedy deletion#GA1, replace:

"Mainspace pages (galleries) that are empty or contain no useful content, such as pages that contain text but no images or other media."

with

"Mainspace pages that contain no conceivably useful content, such as empty pages or a gallery for a subject that contains text but never had more than one image or other media. If the gallery contains less than two files because the media was deleted, the gallery should be repopulated or a DR should be started."

In case you're wondering "what's the difference?", well, the difference is not that huge. But some admins (plural) are interpreting the current text to mean any page in gallery (main) namespace that isn't a gallery should be speedily deleted. This despite the policy already saying "or contain no useful content". Content that is useful but not a gallery shouldn't be deleted, at the very least not speedily. If needed, we can propose additional policy to define what is and isn't desirable in the main namespace. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 19:00, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the effects would be of such a change. Enshrining a threshold of "two" might give legitimacy to such micro-galleries. Stressing that text should be elsewhere seems to be a way to say that it's fine to remove or even delete any textual content from galleries if it could theoretically go elsewhere (although your stated goal is the opposite, as far as I understand). I don't see a big problem with having some flexibility in textual content of galleries and categories, while I have no idea why we should allow main namespace pages on Commons which are not galleries. Nemo 19:18, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
@Nemo bis: The limit of two is already enshrined in the canned edit summaries for speedy deletions: "Gallery without at least two images or other media files". Wasn't my idea. Used 157 times past month. The current policy wording says "without media", implying a gallery with one image is acceptable. I made a minor change to the text to clarify text contributions means "galleries" with only text contributions.
As for "why", well first I think it's good to have the flexibility to use the main namespace in useful ways, and only ban things that are abused or that the community doesn't want. There has been a war over disambiguation pages the last couple of years. The admins won, obviously. I don't care if the community, in a vote, decides to ban disambiguation pages in main namespace. You might argue I could instead create a proposal to allow disambiguation pages, but the current policy seems to already allow them so that makes no sense, yet they are routinely deleted. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 19:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Close inactive non-English village pumps[edit]

Inactive VP are like ghost towns. Posts on those don't get answered in time. We may consequently miss out issues or lose the minority users. Therefore, I would like to make three proposals:

  1. Close inactive non-English village pumps. (As part of the process, resolve any unanswered requests or move them to major VP.)
  2. Merge all non-English help desks into their respective VP.
  3. If a certain language version were to be revived or created anew, it must receive community concensus first.

And some technical suggestions:

  1. Remaining ones should be opted out of message delivery, unless the community agrees to opt in. The messages are more like spam that make real discussions harder to find.
  2. Archives to be done on request only (by inserting {{Section resolved}}) or automatically after no response for min. 2-3 months. Archives should be set up per year (preferably) or per 250K+ bytes. (Prompted by the Commons:Köy çeşmesi, archived automatically for 7-day-old posts and set up per month... ridiculous settings for a minor forum.)

--Roy17 (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Mea culpa — I just added to my watchlist all those VPs whose languages I can contribute in adn might need a helping hand (so, not fr and es). -- Tuválkin 23:15, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
Adding to the top, IMHO, the main VP and help desk are not reserved for English but they serve as centralised noticeboards. Only if threads in a certain language overwhelm the primarily Engish VP, should the language have its separate place. It's not the other way around, that each language automatically deserves a place, and now I am being Anglocentric and killing them. VP and HD are meant for reporting issues and solving problems but not general Internet forums.
Another reason to open a minority VP could be using it like classified ads, but I doubt how effective this is. Rather than posting here, users should take the matter to the more popular local wikis.--Roy17 (talk) 17:23, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
  • No opinion on the matter in general, but existence of two separate Serbian boards Commons:Трг and Commons:Trg is a patent absurd; let alone both are inactive. Merge all such stuff into one Serbo-Croatian (or Croato-Serbian, if one likes it more) village pump. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 09:17, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

The ones to keep[edit]

I think the following languages can be kept: the six working languages of UN, German, Japanese, Portuguese, Italian, Dutch, Persian.

Borderline (some activity, but not all posts get answered, and some of their population is relatively small): Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Finnish, Ukrainian, Bengali, Hebrew.--Roy17 (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2019 (UTC) +Korean, Turkish.--10:51, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

In my opinion, whether a forum is active or useful, does not depend only on the number of new posts, but also on whether experienced users are present to help. If not enough native speakers monitor the forums, it's better for newbies to ask on the main help desk/VP. A solution is, interested users can sign up to monitor a forum and be listed at the top of the page. If issues are not answered in time, newbies could go directly to those users' talk pages. The Commons community also knows whether a forum is actively maintained by experienced users. (This list is redundant for languages that obviously have large active userbases, e.g. Dutch.)
Btw, there are no signs of native speakers' activity on the Greek Commons:Αγορά and the Thai Commons:สภากาแฟ, even though these languages have hugh population. Everything is bots' spam or non-Native speakers' appeal for help. I'd say Close.--Roy17 (talk) 10:51, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
The Serbian forum in two scripts, if kept, should be considered for unification like how the Chinese Commons:Village pump/zh is implemented.--Roy17 (talk) 11:00, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep ALL of them, there is a chance that these village pumps will become active in the future and for speakers of these languages these village pumps might be their only gateway to help, even if interaction is sparse (to put it at best). We should fight the Anglocentrism of Wikimedia Commons, not enforce it. A common problem many people have is that if they don't speak English then they won't be able to contribute here. It is better to editprotect largely inactive village pumps until a speaker requests access than to outright delete it, I just don't see the benefits of deleting any village pump. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:45, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting comment.svg Addendum, and as usual, the conversation regarding the fate of many non-English speaking communities is wholly conducted in English excluding the people whom this proposal concerns, this only shows the extend of the current Anglocentrism of Wikimedia Commons and Wikidata. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:48, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
      At least Commons:Čaršija satisfies COM:CSD#G1 (nothing meaningful). 4nn1l2 (talk) 16:00, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
      When there is no native speaker (especially experienced ones) around, it makes no difference if you reply to them on their version or on the main VP in English or anything but their mother tongue, but it does make a difference for them not to be guided to a ghost town, and have their messages discovered months or years later by wandering scavengers like me. The main VP and help desk are not reserved for English either.--Roy17 (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
  • The proposal by 4nn1l2 seems reasonable. I support it. --Steinsplitter (talk) 16:12, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep ALL of them per Donald, and encourage knowledgeable native speakers of languages other than English to contribute to, or at least watchlist, the village pumps of their native languages.   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 18:43, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep. If you're concerned about people posting to these pages not getting answers, put them on your watchlist and answer them. Forcing non-English speakers to negotiate the English Village Pump to get a response is backwards.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep ALL of them I agree with Donald.--Vulphere 14:13, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep them all, per Donald and Jeff and Prosfilaes. -- Tuválkin 14:36, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol keep vote.svg Keep ALL of them per Donald. Move the VP to the major ones? So, you think people can just move to Spanish or English VP? Most part of the world do not speak English. Better keep those VP than force people move to a VP in a language they do not understand. --Sahaquiel - Hast du eine Frage? Coat of arms of Germany.svg 22:28, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Questions @Donald Trung, Jeff G., Prosfilaes, Vulphere, Tuvalkin: may I ask for a confirmation that your Keep All means you support keeping Commons:Čaršija? How many of you visited this page before you said Keep All?
And how many of the 50+ VP have you visited, and checked their histories to see their activity?--Roy17 (talk) 15:01, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
I saw it, while I cannot endorse it's creation in its current form I do think that such village pumps have potential, it should best be improved to match this page and some basic copy-pasting might suffice. I think that these village pumps largely suffer from a lack of communication between Wikimedia Commons and their respective Wikipedia's, there isn't that much cross-wiki communication. For example "Commons:De Kroeg" links to this page (current version) but not vice versa. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 15:35, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Please don't ping me on general boards like this. When you propose 50+ pages for deletion, you can't expect people to look at every one; expect responses to the general principle. I watch one of the pages you propose for deletion, and see no reason at all to deprive Esperanto speakers of a page to communicate on Commons.--Prosfilaes (talk) 18:48, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
@Prosfilaes: I proposed Closing, not deletion. The general principle would be marking pages with {{Historical}}. And out of 50+ VP, my stand is 21 of them can be kept, so I did not propose 50+ pages for deletion. Not 50+, not deletion! I always expect thoughtful discussions.
Esperanto VP had seven threads in 10 years. Only two of them are not massive news delivery. I dont seem to see your effort at maintaining the VP either.
Could you please clarify then, whether you backtrack on Commons:Čaršija? If thst's the case, what about Commons:İniy dew?--Roy17 (talk) 19:09, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
The distinction between "closing" and "deleting" here is uninteresting; either way you make an interactive page unusable. The distinction between 50+ and 29+ is rarely interesting.
People who argue against the death penalty don't get into the details of what w:Bobby Joe Long did, so no, I refuse to be drawn in on a discussion of specific Village Pumps. I believe there's value in having a page where people who don't speak English can feel comfortable posting on instead of demanding they go to the Village Pump. If by thoughtful discussion you mean discussion that starts with the same assumptions as you, you're going to be oft disappointed and oft unfair.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Roy17, you may ask for a confirmation, and that is now given. Your gotcha question is noted and dismissed, as this is a matter of principle. What all these pages need is a few active Commoners who are fluent speakers of their languages to watchlist them, making sure that any enquiry is replied to. Considerations about the number of such enquiries are irrelevant (and, frankly, feels somewhat meanspirited); this is not costing anyone anything, so lets just make it work. -- Tuválkin 05:17, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
@Tuvalkin: Those were honest questions, but you answered only the first one. I am sorry that you chose to interpret them in a negative way. Commons:Čaršija is subject to speedy deletion per G1, but since some users confirm they support keeping it, a DR will be necessary. I am looking forward to your opinions in DR.--Roy17 (talk) 10:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
  • I am getting flashbacks to the whole Portal discussion over at en-wp. --HyperGaruda (talk) 16:38, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
Now two weeks after the keep all votes, what has the users enthusiastic about linguistic diversity done to help resolve the cold cases on each board? Btw, which is worse, replying on their local boards in foreign languages, or asking them to post on COM:VP in their native languages?--Roy17 (talk) 17:21, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Help desks[edit]

I'm splitting off the suggestion about help desks. {{Lang-HD}} is a bit misleading: most languages just redirect to their respective VP, while only English, French, Japanese, and Mirandese(nope, Mirandese redirects to the Portuguese VP) have separate Help Desk pages. --HyperGaruda (talk) 07:06, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Mirandese should either have its own VP, or redirect to Asturian VP. (Just like a link to, say, a non-existent Flemish VP should redirect to Dutch VP, not to French VP.) -- Tuválkin 14:34, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Better image template[edit]

Is there such a thing as a template, easy to find, to ask that a better version of an image be uploaded, such as here, where the size is so small, hence the writing so blurred, that it's questionable whether or not such an image, of a very interesting subject, is snything more than an irritating distraction?

If not:

Proposal: Create a "better image" template as per need explained above. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:47, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing: We have {{Blurry}} and {{Low quality}}, do they meet your needs?   — Jeff G. please ping or talk to me 20:47, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for asking! I was thinking more in terms of a template that says something like "This image of a valuable subject should be replaced if possible with a better version". --SergeWoodzing (talk) 20:51, 18 July 2019 (UTC)